in taoism and other form of buddhism they relate to buddhas and boddhisattvas and they practice it .....but they dont tell how to become a buddhas....i think tibetan buddhism in the lamrim text used by sages in the tibet to gain fast enlightenment......thats why all of you now study the lamrim text to become enlightenment....but for ordinary people like us.....they practice the normal type of buddhism worshipping buddhas and boddhisatvvas and the deities which we have preference in taoism....so  the vows is not to pray to worldly gods in the tibetan buddhism...huh....i think they dun like the gods distract them on their path to enlightenment...thats why they choose not to worship worldly god when practicing to the path of enlightenment.......if you want to become buddhas...why do you want to worship gods??very logical.....you are not to the path of become gods to gain enlightenment.....this is the explanation which i think is logical based on un-enlightenment views ......haha...correct...

[There is even one story about Anathapindika, the Buddha's sponsor who took refuge in the Buddha and was protected when he passed by a demon infested place. But when he saw the statue of a god and prayed to it, he lost his protection and was attacked.]

 
There is even one story about Anathapindika, the Buddha's sponsor who took refuge in the Buddha and was protected when he passed by a demon infested place. But when he saw the statue of a  god and prayed to it, he lost his protection and was attacked.

anyone know what statue of a god that anathapindika is praying to it...as fas as i concern....it is a evil god not virtuos god.....i dun think virtous god will not be able to fight demon like god of christian or Allah......these are the virtous god.........what evil god is this..please tell me i would like to know as i want to study lamrim too...although i didnt read a thing about the text in lamrim......no idea.....

Here i come again....8 verses of thought transformation huh.....ya...i would like to know more about it and the lamrim....there is nothing wrong about tibetan buddhism which has clear and specific guide to devotees achieve enlightenment faster than many other method or other form of buddhism??maybe...i am not expert in thailand buddhism,chinese taoism,japanese buddhism,theravada,mahayana or so on.........hey joey...you are draconian....not democratic...wonder what would like a country be if such a person like you exist...there will be martial law.......yayaya......tibetan buddhism is now flourishing because it is very specific and come from the tibetan founded by many past buddhas and great sages or enlightened beings.......i am very proud and honor that tibetan buddhism teaching can be found on the internet and able to practice it........what i mean is we should questions about something in the buddhas so that we can practice correctly...not blindly accept it.....we must find what is logical and what is not...we are human...have intelligence.....as a buddhas say ' to do good and reject evil'..this is the teaching of all buddhas.....and do not accept buddhas teaching blindly......i am kind of tired of the post i made......hope everyone will end suffering and attain enlightenment soon...this is the ultimate objective....amitofo.....

why dont we move to another topic in the ' Other Teachings/ Traditions.. namely Japanese and Chinese astrology which i have posted :

 jyhopester,

thanks yyhopester....i am very appreciate with you that you have answers my questions correctly....i think you are better than joey....it is about motivations and what we pray for...according to the chinese sources....the link you have given me...its ok to pray to them but dun ask them to gain something.....its all about motivation......the sources say...the chinese can put... 'tu di gong', wei tuo boddhisattva , kuan kong , and other taoist deities in the same altar....given the rules that they must be put lower level than buddhas....the chinese link you have given me claims that do not ask for something from ghosts,local deities,bad deities live in the jungle,street,or somewhere on earth....because if the human cannot repay them in return ..they will create havoc in your life....thats why shrines setup by the roadside,business premises to honor them so that they wont disturb you...you still have to set up shrines to worship them because they live in the roadside, business premises or other places....and  they should worship this boddhisattva which is very famous indeed by the name ' EARTHSTORE BODHISATTVA' or DI ZHANG WANG PUSA' in chinese...because earthstore boddhisattva control all the earth spirit and they are under him.....does this taoist deities under them???the sources say yes...one of them taoist deities ...wei tuo is under earthstore bodhisattva....if these taoist deities is under earthstore boddhisattva..then it should be most of the taoist deities under earthstore boddhisattva....this is the answer i like to hear......

but joey in the past forum criticize and reject and demonize taoist deities and even come out with a story whoever pray to gods will not protected by buddhas..dont play with words with me okay?i know you...joey...very educated....it is the educated people who are genius playing with words to win over their opponents when they clearly know they say the wrong thing...you are just a human ...joey...i forgive your ' EGO'....if you still cannot accept your weakness and mistakes.....you fail to practice your dharma and you disguise your teacher who teach you dharma to gain enlightenment .....

[I'm not even telling people that Buddhas will not protect or whatever.]

JOEY,

Please...you are not knowledgeable to become a moderator and buddhist....of all the moderator ..you are the most stubborn and disgusting...why because at the time you are not so knowleageable but you act like you are and clearly you say the wrong thing about buddhist teachings...here is the quote :

'you're not serious into Buddhist practice, so thats okay but please dont try to battle your way and brainwash people who are Buddhist into thinking that it is allright to pray to taoist gods when they have taken refuge when it is clearly  not. Many Buddhist text have stated that very clearly

and please dont attack me because it's so funny. I'm not even telling people that Buddhas will not protect or whatever. The story i posted is found in a Buddhist text - it means you havent read enough yet if you havent found it.'

you try to divert from your previous sentence you wrote as below :

If you consider yourself taoist and pray to them there's  nothing wrong, but its contradictory when you still do that when you have already taken refuge in the Buddha Dharma and Sangha. There is even one story about Anathapindika, the Buddha's sponsor who took refuge in the Buddha and was protected when he passed by a demon infested place. But when he saw the statue of a  god and prayed to it, he lost his protection and was attacked.

thats just how the story goes and yes, please respect the Buddhist beliefs and principles.


look at the sentence above :

you are not trying to tell people buddhas will not protect or whatsoever????you come out with a story say anathapindika not protect by buddhas after worship a statue....to justified your claim.....i think you are still a novice and not qualified to teach dharma as you are still afraid because other people worship taoist deities and make frens with them......and you didnt....as a human...you are still bound by greed..jealousy....envy...anger...please check your behaviour.....if you are serious in dharma ..please follow your tibetan buddhism....i am here to try to solve the chinese problems about worshiping taoist deities and their ancestor.....

what story????kids story????in all my entire life searching on buddhism text ...i havent found such a thing...christian and islam religion...yes...i agree...they cannot relate to buddhism it is totally different religion.......but taoism text always say about guan yin and buddhas........and all the other buddhas as well..they mix up....they mix up with buddhas,guan yin and taoist deities...i see nothing wrong with that???hey ..joey.....if you did not pray to that deities...please stop convince people buddha will not protect people who worship taoist deities for protection...you are just a student....if you are envy on people  pray to taoist deities and pray to all these beings mix up with buddhas and tibetan buddhas.....then you are not qualified to talk about this...you are qualified talking about tibetan buddhism..but not mahayana buddhism,therayada buddhism and other form of buddhism which eventually take them to enlightenment....you are not a good buddhist...you are selfish buddhist who did not take other peoples view....you are not qualified to tell people buddhas will not protect people who pray to 'good deities' especially taoist deities which found on chinese text....buddhas is very dissappointed with you distorted peoples view...n.....

1.Some people say buddhist cannot pray to worldly gods....taoist deities..........i mean...they are certain gods which we can pray like four face buddhas...but the questions is four face buddhas exits from thailand which is practicing buddhism.....i read a chinese text they say is good to worship them for wealth and protection but cannot be put at home because home is a harmony place...it should be put in business premises located outside the premises....but then again this four face buddhas according to text is good god and merciful....i dunno what thailand buddhist say about it but i am sure they like them very much because they help them to fight demon and evil and bless them for success.....however someone say they need to repay four face buddha kindness...i agree with it......

2.according to tibetan buddhism teachings....we should take vows not to pray to worldly gods..and worldly deities....i totally agree with it if the worldly gods is evil and bad deities......this sentence is very generalize..i mean...they havent consider chinese taoism teaching which have good gods and deities...like kuan kong and zhao kong ming ( no experience on this deities but sources say it help to protect taoism teachings which means he is very good to pray ).i think they are good.

3.i dun agree with joey if someone pray to other world gods and deities is not a buddhist.Let us look in to the tibetan buddhism mantra, mahayana buddhism mantra and theravada buddhism mantra....when we recite some buddhism mantra....we also recite the name of many deities , heavenly deities , gods , ghost and so on ....in this case this prove that we are asking all of these beings to protect us not just buddha....dont you agree??but then someone claim if a person pray to worldly gods and worldly deities which is good...they are not buddhist???not logical.....i totally agree with it if buddhist pray to worldly gods and deities which is bad.....in this case i have to check on the internet which worldly god is bad or deities is bad.....if we can recite the buddhism mantra which contains buddhas ,gods , deities , heavenly beings , nagas , dragon , celestial beings...dont you think we can worship them????very logic! i am not saying we should worship all these beings...we should follow buddha teachings to end suffering....which is a dharma practice......amitofo.....

[Primary guidelines]

i answer each of your questions :-

1.so it's in the taoism teaching. so do you believe in them?
2.what all these mean to you?
3.do you pray to them?
4.do you take refuge in them?
5.what do they mean to you?

answer:
1.taoism teaching believe them? of course!why not.taoism is about many philosophy which is logical such as yin and yang.
2.what they mean to me? taoist deities in exits thousands of years in every household especially chinese.so i just follow.iu think they are great if not better than buddhas.dont you think it is better than human??
3.of course i pray to them some taoist deities.and i follow tibetan buddhism too.i pray to all tibetan buddhism buddhas for your info.
4.did i take refuge in them? i have found in the wikipedia about the word refuge ...it looks like this : Refuge to the Three Jewels.

Primary guidelines

To actualise refuge in:

    - Buddha: commit yourself to one teacher, the Buddha.
    - Dharma: listen, study and practice Dharma to overcome your own delusions.
    - Sangha: respect Sangha and train in accordance with their example.

Commit to:

    - train the body, speech and mind, instead of letting our senses rule us: do not say harsh, cynical things and avoid being judgmental.
    - practice ethics and vows.
    - be kind and considerate to any living being.

[edit] Secondary guidelines

Referring to the refuge in the:

    - Buddha: do not follow other, lower beings as ultimate spiritual guides.
    - Dharma: do not harm or upset humans or animals.
    - Sangha: do not be negatively influenced by any extremists or others opposing our beliefs.

Show respect to the:

    - Buddha: respect all images of the Buddha, treat these as if they are Buddhas.
    - Dharma: respect texts, treat them with utmost care.
    - Sangha: respect even pieces of robes and all who wear robes (regardless of their behaviour).

[edit] Six points of training

   1. Take refuge in the Three Refuges, do not seek the source of your happiness and problems outside yourself.
   2. Offer the first part of food or drink to the triple jewel, by blessing it before eating or drinking by reciting "Om Ah Hum". (The mantra applies only to the Vajrayana tradition. Any offering prayer may be used.)
   3. Encourage others to become inner beings (Buddhists) and to take refuge; but only when one is asked for advice.
   4. Recite the refuge prayer 3x in the day and 3x in the night.
   5. Follow the example of the Three Refuges, rely on them as the only trustworthy refuge objects.
   6. Never lose faith in the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha.

Refering to the above explanation about refuge:One sentence which is important:

 ' - Buddha: do not follow other, lower beings as ultimate spiritual guides.'

Yes.A buddhist do not follow other beings as ultimate spiritual guides.They only follow Buddhas Teachings.the lower beings such as taoist deities is just worshiping following ancestors or chinese traditions.would it be wrong?I dun think so.

5.what do they mean to me????i think they are great.Taoist deities like kuan kong practice kind deeds and full of righteousness.he is the dharma protector.' and the chinese altar has this ' tu di gong' 'di zhu gong'.they bless the household.

i gtg.kind of tired.

I hate astrology and fengshui masters!!!!!especially the chinese fengshui mastersss....they out to make money and they think they are masters can write anything rubbish to threaten other peoples life to make money for their personal gains...they twist and write stupid bazi astrology to convince people they are great.....they are irresponsible human beings.......dont be fool by these stupid masters ...but then many of them have nothing to do have a kind heart manipulated by them....can you ask rinpoche to teach them a lessons......

what it has got to do with me anyway??Refering to the below :

i have to search out the chinese text say zhao gong ming is a boddhisatva once being a monk and confered by some gods or buddhas to help human beings to do good deeds...zhao gong ming is also known as ' the Pusa of the black altar' ....Pusa in chinese means ' Boddhisattva'..

this is the taoism teachings....they relate to buddhas and boddhisatvas...they keep using this words buddhas and boddhisattvas in their taoism text....it is not created by me or written by me anyway....i have nothing to do with it....since you say tibetan buddhism is different ...so be it.....i dun have to convince you anyway....people can make their choice..these are the taoism and buddhism teaching which can be found all over the internet....i put buddha amitabha and other buddhas on top of my priority.....taoism deities under them...they all are heavenly beings relate to each other and stay in heavens...they are Frens!!!!They are dharma protectors and bodhisattva.... unless some Asuras and Maras they are not.....Common Senses....if taoism deities like the Three Pure one are enlighten beings...they can still follow Buddhas Teachings dont they????They still can gain enlightenment if they are immortal.....

i have to search out the chinese text say zhao gong ming is a boddhisatva once being a monk and confered by some gods or buddhas to help human beings to do good deeds...zhao gong ming is also known as ' the Pusa of the black altar' ....Pusa in chinese means ' Boddhisattva'.......you can check these links for to read about their legends to add your knowledge....

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Investiture_of_the_Gods/Chapter_50

Excerpts from Joey.
'nobody's quarreling. you're trying to create trouble for us. i did not condemm that taoist gods are bad. please show me where i said taoist gods are bad, the exact sentence. If you have problems comprehending english, i suggest that you take english classes. the only fanatic here is the fanatic who keeps insisting in so many posts that it is okay to pray to taoist gods and that they are enlightened despite everyone patiently trying to explain

so alien, since your real intention is to cause mischief and trouble for us, i suggest that you stop posting here. I will not tolerate nonsense like this, especially this show of immaturity and stupidity'.

above sentence.you said you did not condemn taoist gods are bad. i show you now.

'If you just want to pray to the Buddhas for money or wealth or anything for this life, go ahead. nobody is stopping you. But dont take refuge as it will cause you to have bad karma.'

what you try to say at the above????bad karma????you said the taoism practicing bad karma by praying to taoist deities like kuan kong and zhao gong ming??you are condemning the whole world chinese taoist now ......so now the chinese taoist has bad karma huh...i dunno how many of them in this world.....i think they dun like you Joey now......you better pray more on buddhas to bless you or else they will come to you......

banned me??? What is wrong with you Joey....you are not democratic...i would rather play some computer games than debating especially with Joey who think she can banned people she dun like when she fail to make a point here...especially concerning the deities like ' kuan kong '  dharma protector in buddhism, zhao gong ming is a boddhisattva or pusa something like this..according to some master or sifu in the chinese text...what it has to do with the human in the mortal world as i said....they just accept what other teach them but then again they are many teaching in this world which confuse them.....i like tibetan buddhism very much because it worship all the buddhas and not gods....i am not taoist either.....JOey...you dun like accept defeat..loser....this is human nature when some of their point debating go wrong....hahahahha.....i win..........i am enlighten now........will become buddha soon.....

ha...you see...pointed out by Guardian of the Gate..these worshipping deities and gods problems has get into the multi faith marriage....if we do not tolerated worhsipping gods and multi faith and practice in moderation....especially i would like to say to you Joey...You are fanatic.....as i want to pointed out....what we have to do with these deities and gods....non of our business anyway...it is part of culture and ancestor teaching....why we have to make it so complicated....would it be good if all the buddhas teach them do good and bless us....and we worship them on the altar with peace in mind....the buddhas will teach them behave....or the supreme gods.....not us....we are too busy to debate on this thing as we have many other things to do...oh please...for me i just show respect to all deities and gods and boddhisatvas as they are all higher than us and can help me...there is nothing wrong in that..please be moderate in your practicing buddhism.....you havent condemn muslim now.....if you are ...they will wage war against you....you are condemning taoist deities not good...and now you directly condemn many chinese the whole world..to change their culture and method of worship....luckily taoism practicing loving kindness and toleration....if you speak like this against muslim fanatics who have wrong intrepretation and they dont practicing moderation and loving kindness...they will have 'holy war' against you....JOey..talking about religion people quarrel...small thing also make a fuss....you havent go to talk about other peoples personal life or international politics .......