do you think buddhist can pray to zhao kong ming and other taoist deities

[Joey]

what story????kids story????in all my entire life searching on buddhism text ...i havent found such a thing...christian and islam religion...yes...i agree...they cannot relate to buddhism it is totally different religion.......but taoism text always say about guan yin and buddhas........and all the other buddhas as well..they mix up....they mix up with buddhas,guan yin and taoist deities...i see nothing wrong with that???hey ..joey.....if you did not pray to that deities...please stop convince people buddha will not protect people who worship taoist deities for protection...you are just a student....if you are envy on people  pray to taoist deities and pray to all these beings mix up with buddhas and tibetan buddhas.....then you are not qualified to talk about this...you are qualified talking about tibetan buddhism..but not mahayana buddhism,therayada buddhism and other form of buddhism which eventually take them to enlightenment....you are not a good buddhist...you are selfish buddhist who did not take other peoples view....you are not qualified to tell people buddhas will not protect people who pray to 'good deities' especially taoist deities which found on chinese text....buddhas is very dissappointed with you distorted peoples view...n.....

its not just me who say that. taoism does say about other buddhas but they do not take refuge in those buddhas. they take refuge in tai shang lao kuan and other deities.

maybe you dont even know what taking refuge in buddhism is. taking refuge is making a promise to the Buddha Dharma and Sangha that you will not take refuge in any other gods. in theravarda Buddhism there is a specific phrase that says "I take refuge in the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha and no other refuge will I seek". In Mahayana there is no mention of taking refuge in worldly gods...not even the 4 great generals. If you tell me you read so many chinese text that has taoist deities, are they taoist sutras or buddhist ones?

i'm not qualified. you're right. but i am just repeating what has been said by many Buddhist masters of the past. You're just trying to corner me until i agree with you that its okay for Buddhists who take refuge to pray to taoist gods when so many Buddhist masters of the past and present has spoken against that. Do you think i'll give in to you or to the Buddhist masters who said that? So can you respect Buddhist beliefs when we say that if you seriously want to take up Buddhism you should not pray to taoist gods? because that shows you're not serious in Buddhist practice?

you're not serious into Buddhist practice, so thats okay but please dont try to battle your way and brainwash people who are Buddhist into thinking that it is allright to pray to taoist gods when they have taken refuge when it is clearly  not. Many Buddhist text have stated that very clearly

and please dont attack me because it's so funny. I'm not even telling people that Buddhas will not protect or whatever. The story i posted is found in a Buddhist text - it means you havent read enough yet if you havent found it.

I'd like you to ask someone like Master Chih Kung if it is okay to pray to any taoist deities after taking refuge, via email and post it here and see what he has to say. you can also send an email to Ajahn Brahm to verify as well to prove that I am not telling ppl not to pray, but it was taught that way by many masters. So please, dont waste everybody's time and energy, I am sure you have more to do than just to argue with me on this. On second thought, nobody's forcing you take refuge or give up praying to those taoist deities. I am just replying to your question.

[jyhopester]

dear alien,
please read the 21st and the 22nd question. clearly stated.

http://www.jiexieyin.org/ShowArticle.asp?ArticleID=20960

[alien]

JOEY,

Please...you are not knowledgeable to become a moderator and buddhist....of all the moderator ..you are the most stubborn and disgusting...why because at the time you are not so knowleageable but you act like you are and clearly you say the wrong thing about buddhist teachings...here is the quote :

'you're not serious into Buddhist practice, so thats okay but please dont try to battle your way and brainwash people who are Buddhist into thinking that it is allright to pray to taoist gods when they have taken refuge when it is clearly  not. Many Buddhist text have stated that very clearly

and please dont attack me because it's so funny. I'm not even telling people that Buddhas will not protect or whatever. The story i posted is found in a Buddhist text - it means you havent read enough yet if you havent found it.'

you try to divert from your previous sentence you wrote as below :

If you consider yourself taoist and pray to them there's  nothing wrong, but its contradictory when you still do that when you have already taken refuge in the Buddha Dharma and Sangha. There is even one story about Anathapindika, the Buddha's sponsor who took refuge in the Buddha and was protected when he passed by a demon infested place. But when he saw the statue of a  god and prayed to it, he lost his protection and was attacked.

thats just how the story goes and yes, please respect the Buddhist beliefs and principles.


look at the sentence above :

you are not trying to tell people buddhas will not protect or whatsoever????you come out with a story say anathapindika not protect by buddhas after worship a statue....to justified your claim.....i think you are still a novice and not qualified to teach dharma as you are still afraid because other people worship taoist deities and make frens with them......and you didnt....as a human...you are still bound by greed..jealousy....envy...anger...please check your behaviour.....if you are serious in dharma ..please follow your tibetan buddhism....i am here to try to solve the chinese problems about worshiping taoist deities and their ancestor.....

[alien]

 jyhopester,

thanks yyhopester....i am very appreciate with you that you have answers my questions correctly....i think you are better than joey....it is about motivations and what we pray for...according to the chinese sources....the link you have given me...its ok to pray to them but dun ask them to gain something.....its all about motivation......the sources say...the chinese can put... 'tu di gong', wei tuo boddhisattva , kuan kong , and other taoist deities in the same altar....given the rules that they must be put lower level than buddhas....the chinese link you have given me claims that do not ask for something from ghosts,local deities,bad deities live in the jungle,street,or somewhere on earth....because if the human cannot repay them in return ..they will create havoc in your life....thats why shrines setup by the roadside,business premises to honor them so that they wont disturb you...you still have to set up shrines to worship them because they live in the roadside, business premises or other places....and  they should worship this boddhisattva which is very famous indeed by the name ' EARTHSTORE BODHISATTVA' or DI ZHANG WANG PUSA' in chinese...because earthstore boddhisattva control all the earth spirit and they are under him.....does this taoist deities under them???the sources say yes...one of them taoist deities ...wei tuo is under earthstore bodhisattva....if these taoist deities is under earthstore boddhisattva..then it should be most of the taoist deities under earthstore boddhisattva....this is the answer i like to hear......

but joey in the past forum criticize and reject and demonize taoist deities and even come out with a story whoever pray to gods will not protected by buddhas..dont play with words with me okay?i know you...joey...very educated....it is the educated people who are genius playing with words to win over their opponents when they clearly know they say the wrong thing...you are just a human ...joey...i forgive your ' EGO'....if you still cannot accept your weakness and mistakes.....you fail to practice your dharma and you disguise your teacher who teach you dharma to gain enlightenment .....

[alien]

why dont we move to another topic in the ' Other Teachings/ Traditions.. namely Japanese and Chinese astrology which i have posted :

[Guardian of the Gate]

Joey said:

 The 4 faced god that the thais pray to is actually brahma, the jade emperor's big boss.

FYI: for those not aware, Brahma used to have five heads (faces) until he lied about finding the start/end of Shiva to Vishnu, and for this lie Bhairava cut off his fifth head, leaving him four.  That is why there almost no Brahma temples or is he actually worshiped in other temples with his own altar.  Remeber, he is the father of material creation.

[Joey]

JOEY,

Please...you are not knowledgeable to become a moderator and buddhist....of all the moderator ..you are the most stubborn and disgusting...why because at the time you are not so knowleageable but you act like you are and clearly you say the wrong thing about buddhist teachings...here is the quote :

'you're not serious into Buddhist practice, so thats okay but please dont try to battle your way and brainwash people who are Buddhist into thinking that it is allright to pray to taoist gods when they have taken refuge when it is clearly  not. Many Buddhist text have stated that very clearly

and please dont attack me because it's so funny. I'm not even telling people that Buddhas will not protect or whatever. The story i posted is found in a Buddhist text - it means you havent read enough yet if you havent found it.'

you try to divert from your previous sentence you wrote as below :

If you consider yourself taoist and pray to them there's  nothing wrong, but its contradictory when you still do that when you have already taken refuge in the Buddha Dharma and Sangha. There is even one story about Anathapindika, the Buddha's sponsor who took refuge in the Buddha and was protected when he passed by a demon infested place. But when he saw the statue of a  god and prayed to it, he lost his protection and was attacked.

thats just how the story goes and yes, please respect the Buddhist beliefs and principles.


look at the sentence above :

you are not trying to tell people buddhas will not protect or whatsoever????you come out with a story say anathapindika not protect by buddhas after worship a statue....to justified your claim.....i think you are still a novice and not qualified to teach dharma as you are still afraid because other people worship taoist deities and make frens with them......and you didnt....as a human...you are still bound by greed..jealousy....envy...anger...please check your behaviour.....if you are serious in dharma ..please follow your tibetan buddhism....i am here to try to solve the chinese problems about worshiping taoist deities and their ancestor.....

how is that having greed jealousy envy and anger? i'd like to know your reasoning?  Because that story was found in the Lamrim, a Buddhist text.  So are you saying that the Buddha was jealous of other gods so he made those stories up?

this is getting more fun than i thought

and oh, i am not here to teach Dharma, just share my opinions and help people with it. Sorry to dissapoint you go find other masters

[GonzoEnder]

I can sum up this thread in 5 smiley faces: check it

        

[ysng101]

I think it's time this thread gets closed.

All that's need to be said has been said.  Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.   Nothing's going to change that.  Not even a 1000 posts.

If the urge is still there to re-post our points endlessly ,  we would seriously need to question our own motivation for doing so.

If we won't pratice the 8 verses of thought transformation here in this forum ,  are we going to do it elsewhere ?

[Joey]

yep i should have locked it a while ago but i wanted to see how would alien react. So now here goes