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Joey
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« on: December 14, 2009, 06:53:52 AM » |
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hey guys, [high res PDF: http://genesis.naomh.net/karma%20diagram.pdfThis is the diagram that Rinpoche used 2 days and 2 nights (with his liaisons) to come up with. Liaison Jamie kindly emailed it to me when i sent an email asking for it, so we can get it here all because of her kidness  . It explains the relationship of positive, negative and neutral karma and where it leads. When i saw the chart and after Rinpoche explained, i suddenly had a very clear direction on how i should lead my life. Hopefully it has the same effect for all of you. Feel free to ask about anything that you dont understand about the chart here.  |
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
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Crazywisdom
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2009, 08:56:23 AM » |
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Thankyou Joey and Jamie On Rinpoches facebook profile is a link to the talk where he uses this diagram, i think there is also the same links from his twitter page too. Things make a bit more sense now that i can see what the descriptions of the different paths are. I think my biggest problem is laziness  |
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more arsehat that arhat ;-)
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spiritnoname
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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2009, 10:06:13 AM » |
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 That's a pretty good diagram, I was expecting to have to point out energy and wisdom but it's there too 
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GonzoEnder
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2009, 09:03:33 PM » |
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neutral looks more scary than bad, though... I would ask why does bad karma have arrows leading to good places if you regret. Neutral karma goes straight to bad things with no option of turning back. Is this because we are not AWARE of our neutral karma in order to reverse it? what is the logic there?
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
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Joey
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« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2009, 11:33:04 PM » |
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neutral looks more scary than bad, though... I would ask why does bad karma have arrows leading to good places if you regret. Neutral karma goes straight to bad things with no option of turning back. Is this because we are not AWARE of our neutral karma in order to reverse it? what is the logic there?
people commit neutral karma out of laziness/delusion. So because of that, they never realize that it leads them back to samsara, and thus are led back there because they do not do anything abt it. |
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
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Blueberry
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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2009, 07:13:08 PM » |
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neutral looks more scary than bad, though... I would ask why does bad karma have arrows leading to good places if you regret. Neutral karma goes straight to bad things with no option of turning back. Is this because we are not AWARE of our neutral karma in order to reverse it? what is the logic there?
people commit neutral karma out of laziness/delusion. So because of that, they never realize that it leads them back to samsara, and thus are led back there because they do not do anything abt it. Pls correct me ya... we have neutral karma out of laziness/delusion, but yet become negative karma? IF we dont anything abt that then it wud become negative karma? when? Or if we do good things then those "neutral karma" wud lead to good karma? how? In the chart...what is different between negative and neutral karma? |
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Joey
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« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2009, 09:04:32 PM » |
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neutral looks more scary than bad, though... I would ask why does bad karma have arrows leading to good places if you regret. Neutral karma goes straight to bad things with no option of turning back. Is this because we are not AWARE of our neutral karma in order to reverse it? what is the logic there?
people commit neutral karma out of laziness/delusion. So because of that, they never realize that it leads them back to samsara, and thus are led back there because they do not do anything abt it. Pls correct me ya... we have neutral karma out of laziness/delusion, but yet become negative karma? IF we dont anything abt that then it wud become negative karma? when? Or if we do good things then those "neutral karma" wud lead to good karma? how? In the chart...what is different between negative and neutral karma? neutral karma leads to negative results which is why it is "bad". In Rinpoche's explanation, neutral karma is created when something is done without intention. |
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
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GonzoEnder
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2009, 10:41:34 PM » |
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hmm... i still think more explanation of neutral karma is necessary joey. What else you know about this diagram. (I watched the qik.com video of rinpoche explaining it.) So apparently I was right.. anything that isn't good karma, is neutral unless the intent remains unseen by the doer. evil remains unseen also unless the person 'wakes up' to it's effects. Is this correct?
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Logged
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
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Joey
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« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2009, 08:51:54 AM » |
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hmm... i still think more explanation of neutral karma is necessary joey. What else you know about this diagram. (I watched the qik.com video of rinpoche explaining it.) So apparently I was right.. anything that isn't good karma, is neutral unless the intent remains unseen by the doer. evil remains unseen also unless the person 'wakes up' to it's effects. Is this correct?
well neutral karma is just karma that isnt "inherently" right or wrong: the easier way to describe it is actions done without intent. What else do you need to know about it? post here and i will try and answer it good, bad and neutral karmas are categories that the Buddha used to show how Karma works. Since everything comes from the mind, intent is very important. Good intent = good karma bad intent = bad karma no intent = neutral karma. the important message here is to change the situation and turn around if you're experiencing the effects of Bad Karma, start on Good Karma and avoid neutral karma by putting in more awareness in daily actions (eg, setting a motivation for even small actions). But then again, that would be more of an ideal than something practical that everyone can use. The whole purpose of this chart is to bring our attention to these points so that it would be extremely easy to apply in our daily lives, not as material for analyzing. |
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
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GonzoEnder
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« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2009, 06:33:51 PM » |
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Yeah sometimes I over analyze stuff. I just need to relax... take small steps but never stepping backwards. If i can take just even the tiniest step forward without ever falling back. Enlightenment will come sooner rather than later. I feel this strongly in my heart. Just a little bit. The trick is that you cant go back. Move as slow as you have to move so you can take a step forward without falling back.
I've heard Rinpoche (in youtube vids) say, making progress is nice, but he's much more concerned with not becoming any worse and not slipping back on what he has accomplished so far.
Even if you 'cant' move forward yet. Don't make it worse. Gain more knowledge and apply it. then take another step forward. repeat that again and again. This way your progress won't be so 'painful' and you won't be going up and down so much. This seems like my new life mantra... hmm I think it's a good one.
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Logged
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
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Joey
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« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2009, 08:53:38 PM » |
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Yeah sometimes I over analyze stuff. I just need to relax... take small steps but never stepping backwards. If i can take just even the tiniest step forward without ever falling back. Enlightenment will come sooner rather than later. I feel this strongly in my heart. Just a little bit. The trick is that you cant go back. Move as slow as you have to move so you can take a step forward without falling back.
I've heard Rinpoche (in youtube vids) say, making progress is nice, but he's much more concerned with not becoming any worse and not slipping back on what he has accomplished so far.
Even if you 'cant' move forward yet. Don't make it worse. Gain more knowledge and apply it. then take another step forward. repeat that again and again. This way your progress won't be so 'painful' and you won't be going up and down so much. This seems like my new life mantra... hmm I think it's a good one.
you would have to be constantly vigilant to achieve that, and there has to be a very powerful underlying motivation. The way you think would have to change completely. |
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
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Blueberry
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« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2010, 11:23:13 PM » |
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neutral looks more scary than bad, though... I would ask why does bad karma have arrows leading to good places if you regret. Neutral karma goes straight to bad things with no option of turning back. Is this because we are not AWARE of our neutral karma in order to reverse it? what is the logic there?
people commit neutral karma out of laziness/delusion. So because of that, they never realize that it leads them back to samsara, and thus are led back there because they do not do anything abt it. Pls correct me ya... we have neutral karma out of laziness/delusion, but yet become negative karma? IF we dont anything abt that then it wud become negative karma? when? Or if we do good things then those "neutral karma" wud lead to good karma? how? In the chart...what is different between negative and neutral karma? neutral karma leads to negative results which is why it is "bad". In Rinpoche's explanation, neutral karma is created when something is done without intention. Hi J... neutral karma which created without intention then wud become worse until the person realized and do purification. Else neutral karma wud ripen and manifest. Is it? |
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Joey
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« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2010, 04:01:05 AM » |
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neutral looks more scary than bad, though... I would ask why does bad karma have arrows leading to good places if you regret. Neutral karma goes straight to bad things with no option of turning back. Is this because we are not AWARE of our neutral karma in order to reverse it? what is the logic there?
people commit neutral karma out of laziness/delusion. So because of that, they never realize that it leads them back to samsara, and thus are led back there because they do not do anything abt it. Pls correct me ya... we have neutral karma out of laziness/delusion, but yet become negative karma? IF we dont anything abt that then it wud become negative karma? when? Or if we do good things then those "neutral karma" wud lead to good karma? how? In the chart...what is different between negative and neutral karma? neutral karma leads to negative results which is why it is "bad". In Rinpoche's explanation, neutral karma is created when something is done without intention. Hi J... neutral karma which created without intention then wud become worse until the person realized and do purification. Else neutral karma wud ripen and manifest. Is it? yep. easiest example is a person who does not brush his teeth. The more he does not, the higher the chances of his teeth rotting. |
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
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wmw111
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« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2010, 09:25:01 AM » |
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The neutral part I don't get it. Hell realms going there is due to anger , hence how can anger be neutral?
Anyone got great insight into this?
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'Fear is the absolute confusion between you and your projections'
'You are very preoccupied with getting what you want, so you will fail to see what is'
~ Chogyam Trungpa ~
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Joey
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2010, 06:35:14 AM » |
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The neutral part I don't get it. Hell realms going there is due to anger , hence how can anger be neutral?
Anyone got great insight into this?
anger is neutral if there if the conditions for it to arise is not there, but the potential is still there. Therefore it is classified as neutral/ |
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
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