Karma Diagram

[wmw111]

Dear all,
The latest Update to the karma diagram
http://www.kechara.com/articles_view.php?a=2010_10&p=76
In both English and Chinese .

[Crazywisdom]

I've printed a copy 

Jon 

[Blueberry]

Self pity consider as neutral karma?

[wmw111]

I relate the three karma to our mental state before we do our prayers. That before we start our prayer session we check our minds, to see what state it is at , ( this is theory ) , is it negative ,neutral or positive.
If its negative we need to bring it to neutral first at least, if its neutral we try to bring it to positive.  if neutral is white , negative is black and positive is red, it will be easier to stain our mind with positive thoughts if we first bring it to neutral. Hence I think neutral and positive states of mind benefits more than a negative to bring about a positive outcome this is my assumption.

1) In the diagram, my query is it seems neutral has a worst potential that negative karma. Coz I thought if one neutral karma manifests one can go bad or good depending , unless His Eminence refers to people who have nothing good or bad happens to them , everything is pretty ok , hence I don't care and out of ignorance do not seek to improve my situation at all.  Coz from the diagram , neutral does not even lead to something better at all. Its bad news all the way.

Where else negative karma, maybe due to too much pain , we might look for a solution and hence can transform from negative to something better.  Hence people who have a lot of neutral karma( though I think this is quite rare ) are in a worst position than those who have negative karma. Which could be correct , coz some people happy to exist in their everyday normal existence, not doing too much too little or too much. Hence neutral karma lulls us into complacency , whereas negative karma, we feel suffering and pain , hence we try to relieve it or not relieve it.  What do you all think?







  

[wmw111]

Self pity, let say we did something wrong and we feel sorry for ourselves , and not doing anything apart from pitying ourself and feel sorry .
We will most likely repeat the same action , whereas if we sincerely regret and sincerely want to change, we do remedy (purification or make amends) and promise to refrain.
Then that might shift us from doing the same action again.

Self pity or poor me attitude ( telling yourself u arer so bad or evil but doing nothing apart from doing everything in your mind) , wallowing in our unhappiness , what I noticed with myself rarely or never benefits. Hence it is negative imho .

Even if your self pity arises from someone doing something to you, if we understand cause and effect we will know , everything is self created anyways , so no need to feel sorry for oneself as that leads to nowhere.

[wmw111]

Joey
I don't understand your statement , care to give a scenario that fits what you have described . Thanks.

[waybackhome83]

Hey Wai Meng,

Loved how you asked, "What do you all think?" before proceeding to post your own reply .  Someone's ego's HUGE!hehe.  Of course, I'm jesting, sir

I agree with your thoughts.  If we're in a neutral state, not much gets done, we become complacent, and perhaps even when difficult situations arise, we might simply shrug our shoulders due to the mindset we have cultivated.

I can sort of relate to that.  There was a time I was of the mind "whatever happens will happen - just got to go with the flow".   I didn't try at much, because mostly life was comfortable, and even when difficult situations did arise, I'd think, "Well, it'll sort itself out in the end."
Of course, this isn't a very productive attitude.  It's the kind of thinking that can lead you into old age and you're left wondering what on earth you did with your life, and where did the time go?!

With negative karma, as you said, there is too much pain and we reach a point where we try to look for a solution because we don't want to suffer anymore.  There's a drive there in the negative karma that is lacking within a neutral state: you push yourself to get out of the difficulty, to find a solution.

Kind regards,
Sandy

[Blueberry]

Self pity, let say we did something wrong and we feel sorry for ourselves , and not doing anything apart from pitying ourself and feel sorry .
We will most likely repeat the same action , whereas if we sincerely regret and sincerely want to change, we do remedy (purification or make amends) and promise to refrain.
Then that might shift us from doing the same action again.

Self pity or poor me attitude ( telling yourself u arer so bad or evil but doing nothing apart from doing everything in your mind) , wallowing in our unhappiness , what I noticed with myself rarely or never benefits. Hence it is negative imho .

Even if your self pity arises from someone doing something to you, if we understand cause and effect we will know , everything is self created anyways , so no need to feel sorry for oneself as that leads to nowhere.

OK i got it...then why attachment is considered as neutral?

[ysng101]

Both Black and Neutral karma leads to   regret, death, bitterness, sickness , unhappiness and lost chances.

But in the black line, you are actually more aware of the negative things you are doing, hence there is a chance you can choose to change.

In the neutral line, you're mostly unware, therefore no chances for change.  Attachment, causing so much suffering and yet people are unaware of that, therefore  it's in the neutral line.   Laziness is also in the black and neutral karma.   Which line you happen to be in , depends on your awareness.

[Joey]

Joey
I don't understand your statement , care to give a scenario that fits what you have described . Thanks.

lets say someone did something to offend you. you harbor a dislike for that person but the anger towards that person does not manifest actively. However whenever that person is brought up in a discussion with others you would put him/her down. That "hidden" anger that does not manifest actively but rather when there is a chance for it to can be considered neutral in most contexts.

[ysng101]

hidden anger sounds very dangerous.. like a ticking time bomb.

hidden under many layers of self professed divinity.

i recently 'lost' it and went into a heated shouting match with a loved one.

well.. now I'm back to square one.  a year of practise gone to waste.  felt like i had taken 4 steps in front and 5 steps back.

so now, I think of that moment everyday when I do my confessions.  I'll build up layers of self professed divinity again,  until that hidden anger explodes again.  If it's there I hope it surfaces soon .   I can't afford to waste those years .

it's almost like the story of the monk who went up to meditate for years in a cave only to find that he didin't acheive anything when he came back down to civilization and getting angry at the first civilian he met.   

[Blueberry]

Hi Joey
hence i can say ya...negative things (base on ignorance, attachment etc etc)  i keep in me ( whether wud manifest later or not) then its considered as neutral.

Example : i m thinking to do something which due to my selfishness but then after while i dont do and commit not to do such....
but basically i m selfish na... which maybe in other case or condition then my selfishness wud take charge....so in this case where wud i be?

Unless i change myself to less selfish or become selfless  then i wont get chance to get out of neutral...

is it?

[Blueberry]

hidden anger sounds very dangerous.. like a ticking time bomb.

hidden under many layers of self professed divinity.

i recently 'lost' it and went into a heated shouting match with a loved one.

well.. now I'm back to square one.  a year of practise gone to waste.  felt like i had taken 4 steps in front and 5 steps back.

so now, I think of that moment everyday when I do my confessions.  I'll build up layers of self professed divinity again,  until that hidden anger explodes again.  If it's there I hope it surfaces soon .   I can't afford to waste those years .

it's almost like the story of the monk who went up to meditate for years in a cave only to find that he didin't acheive anything when he came back down to civilization and getting angry at the first civilian he met.   

Well...YSNG101
Its good for you to realize and make it up quick... cos you will not want to imagine how much it wud cost you when anger hit you and your loved ones...
It cost me more than half of my age wasted in anger and it took me nowhere instead of deeper and deeper  stuck in samsara...
 

[Joey]

hidden anger sounds very dangerous.. like a ticking time bomb.

hidden under many layers of self professed divinity.

i recently 'lost' it and went into a heated shouting match with a loved one.

well.. now I'm back to square one.  a year of practise gone to waste.  felt like i had taken 4 steps in front and 5 steps back.

so now, I think of that moment everyday when I do my confessions.  I'll build up layers of self professed divinity again,  until that hidden anger explodes again.  If it's there I hope it surfaces soon .   I can't afford to waste those years .

it's almost like the story of the monk who went up to meditate for years in a cave only to find that he didin't acheive anything when he came back down to civilization and getting angry at the first civilian he met.   

if the frequencies are less then its an improvement so just use that as encouragement

[Joey]

Hi Joey
hence i can say ya...negative things (base on ignorance, attachment etc etc)  i keep in me ( whether wud manifest later or not) then its considered as neutral.

Example : i m thinking to do something which due to my selfishness but then after while i dont do and commit not to do such....
but basically i m selfish na... which maybe in other case or condition then my selfishness wud take charge....so in this case where wud i be?

Unless i change myself to less selfish or become selfless  then i wont get chance to get out of neutral...

is it?

if you dont do anything about it and it comes out w/o intentions (i.e. bad habit) then it falls into the neutral category