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Author Topic: Joy and bliss  (Read 599 times)
spiritnoname
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« on: February 13, 2010, 07:08:01 PM »

 are a very important part of the path.

 The good qualities, good traits, good actions should be made a fuel for bliss bliss bliss.

 The bad qualities, bad traits, bad actions, should be viewed with a good mind, like a mother's, and be made a fuel for great bliss.

 You really can take everything and turn it into great joys and expansive transforming activities.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 07:17:01 PM by spiritnoname » Logged
Crazywisdom
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2010, 06:50:41 AM »

Bliss always sounds a bit too much to me, like too much cake or sex or beer, a bit is nice as it contrasts when its absent, but bliss all the time, no thanks.

Now joy on the other hand i think i could take more of, and happiness  Grin

I think contentment is where its at, but maybe i'm just playing with words  Smiley

This is not a comment on your comment Spirit, just i think me being dyslexic make me have an odd way of looking at words.
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more arsehat that arhat ;-)
waybackhome83
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2010, 07:45:34 AM »

Crazy,

Bliss, like too much cake, sex or beer?  Hehe, that's genius.  Although, too much of these things doesn't at all bring bliss - on the contrary, too much of these things bring way too much discomfort!

Bliss simply means utter contentment, joy, happiness...things that aren't really sustained by even a moderate portion of cake, sex or beer Cheesy  All we get is a temporary high that doesn't last long at all, but I'd imagine that spiritual liberation brings with it an infinite bliss, an utter contentment with having successfully shunned all attachment and desire, and having complete understanding of the nature of reality.

Sadly though, I'm nowhere near spiritual liberation, so until then, I'm off for some more cake Wink



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spiritnoname
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2010, 12:18:21 PM »

 By bliss I'm really referring to a psycho-physical sensation, not just being happy.
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wmw111
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2010, 07:41:21 AM »

Maybe i am grasping at straws but here goes....
i don't do that much meditation some contemplation whilst reading thats about it mainly.

I think bliss has to do with happiness , that has less/reduced/eradicated self interest in it

If above assumption is true I may have experienced some of that when I go on rounds doing Kechara Soup Kitchen , even if I am the driver just driving the people who actually pass out food to others. It lasts for quite some time. I would imagine its a happiness from not getting something for oneself , just the joy of being useful and beneficial to others .
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spiritnoname
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2010, 10:25:18 AM »

 I would recognize that as joy, when I say bliss it's actually a mental view and a physical sensation arising together, there are a few different kinds of it categorized by the sensation itself and the cause or fuel of it.


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spiritnoname
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2010, 11:11:49 AM »

 Bliss is something that has not been adequately taught I think,..

 Most lay people don't even know of it today, yet monks and yogis cannot survive properly without it, a monk or nun without it soon disrobes,.. Lay people don't get far without it either,..

 I don't feel like it's my place to teach this, but I'd like to talk about it for the benefit of everyone here, it's something many of you don't know about even though it's really a crucial part of development after you have morality, understanding of the benefits of morality, and respect and praise for morality.
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Crazywisdom
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2010, 01:26:56 PM »

I don't like spatula, i would never buy one, the word used to make me shudder for some reason though i have mellowed somewhat.

I would buy a flat poky stick for cooking with though. Its the same with bliss, the word puts me off. Just the word, not the poky stickness of it.
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more arsehat that arhat ;-)
waybackhome83
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2010, 02:27:50 PM »

Crazy,

Perhaps the word "bliss" puts you off either because it's usually synonymous with things like (to use your examples) delicious cake, drinking a cool beer on a warm day, or waking up with a sexy blonde on the morning after some "bliss", or you might be put off by the idea of bliss because, simply, human beings seem to have an in-built guilt of having too much happiness.

In the first case, what you described before is self-indulgence.  If we have too much pleasures, it actually leads to suffering.  Try eating "too much" cake, or drinking "too much" beer, or having "too much" sex, and you'll end up wishing you hadn't bothered Cheesy
So this isn't bliss, but such pleasures are labelled as bliss for obvious reasons (i.e. if you promote anything as producing bliss, it will sell much better; people will chase after it).

In the second case, how many people do you know who will freely accept compliments, talk themselves up, allow themselves to really enjoy praise after having achieved something?  In short, how many people do you know who really feel comfortable in their own skin and feel good about their positive qualities?

Whether it's a cultural thing, or a society thing, or whether it's down to some innate disposition, most people (strange as it sounds) either don't really think they deserve to be truly happy, or they feel uncomfortable and unsure of what to do with it if they are truly happy.

Next time you give praise to someone, listen to them and you might hear them say something like, "Thank you, although it's nothing really - anyone could have done it", or, "That's kind of you but I really don't deserve those kind words" etc. 
People have a tough time in really allowing themselves to be happy, or thinking well of themselves.  I can't count the amount of people who, when I offer to help write their resume and ask them what they're good at, will say, "Oh...I don't know - I can't really think of anything I'm good at."

A lot of us are superb at self-depracating, and so the idea of bliss, of being utterly content, gives us a feeling of, "Oh, I don't want this...I've not done anything to deserve it"

So maybe that's why you don't like the sound of it - who knows; certainly I can't be sure, but these reasons are possible.

As for bliss itself, you experience it all the time - you just don't remember it because it doesn't tend to last so long when it comes in many different forms.  For example, have you ever been on such a relaxing holiday where you've been on a glorious beach with the sun blazing down on you and all you can hear is the rush of the sea as it hits the sand while you're lying on a comfortable sun lounger?  Many people have sighed and said, "Ahh, this is bliss".  And it is.  Not the false kind either.  Proper letting go, no worries, no feeling of attachment, no anger, no feeling of elation, no sense of ego, no nothing...just a calming sense of pure peace.  That's bliss.

Of course, as soon as you get up, or you hear a screaming child running around with a bucket and spade, it disappears; then you get frustrated and want to throw the brat into the sea!   But then you remember that you're a good Buddhist, and you refrain Wink

There are loads of examples of bliss.  If you've ever had an orgasm, the height of climax is pure bliss.  Again, no worries, no feeling of attachment, no anger, no feeling of elation, no sense of ego, no nothing.  Just bliss.

But these things don't sustain bliss and that's the problem; it's temporary.  That's why desires are problematic.  Desire, by its nature, is insatiable, you are constantly chasing bliss through your desires, but you can't find anything that lasts, hence the cycle.

However, there is a way to achieve lasting bliss.  Through spiritual practice and having developed and fine-tuned the mind, once you find liberation, you notice that...there are no worries, no feeling of attachment, no anger, no feeling of elation, no sense of ego, no nothing.  Just bliss.

"Flat poky stick" scares me!  I'll have a dream tonight where I'm being chased up a steep hill by one...on your conscience be it Cheesy

P.S.  Jon, I did it again...
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« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2010, 09:14:43 AM »

Wayback, you are an eloquent writer. Wise words.

The experience of bliss is, indeed, a cessation of wants, desires, articulate thought. The mind grows calm and at peace. Everything is okay - more than just okay! - as it is. If something needs doing, it is done without the mental feeling of "This NEEDS to be done." In this way, there is no "doer", just a doing. One reason why women enjoy ballroom dancing (I have taught dance for 25 years) is that, at the moment of following a skilled lead, they can touch on bliss. I
often tell the new leads, "If true test of your leading skills is if, at the end of your dance, the follow says, 'That was like magic!'"

Once bliss arises in mindfulness - or once it arises while one is in the process of being mindful of the body, then it is possible to cultivate that bliss again. If one knows that taking a walk on a quiet bike path by oneself, observing the trees and plants, birds flitting around while holding a feeling of love in our hearts and an altruistic wish for the happiness of all who see this glorious sight results in bliss, then one can reproduce it. Perhaps one will not feel it the next time, or the next, but with consistent practice, the bliss will return. Then, knowing that it is possible, and what the internal conditions are for the arising of bliss, one can begin to experiment at other times.

Noting that quietness of mind, an altruistic wish for the happiness of others, and holding a building love in the heart for others were the main ingredients of  bliss, one begins cultivating these qualities. One begins to treat others and self more lovingly, without judgment. (If one holds a judgment for another, one must also hold judgment for oneself.) One begins to let go of unnecessary thinking, unskillful desires, and willfulness. In time, with practice, bliss appears in another life-situation. This is encouraging as it is now known for sure that the process works. The thing to do after this is to continue this practice.

However, bliss is only a feeling. The desire to hold on to it is crush it, similar to holding a butterfly in a closed fist. Enjoy the butterfly in the open hand while learning what the butterfly eats so that one may hold some of that in hand, inviting the butterfly to land. Do not become addicted. Bliss is. Joy is. Happiness is. But so are all other states one finds oneself experiencing. Be present for all states as there is much to learn from each.

May this bit of information be of benefit. Om Shanti
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« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2010, 12:28:03 AM »

"Sadly though, I'm nowhere near spiritual liberation, so until then, I'm off for some more cake"
    That's how I feel a lot, but I don't see the cake as bringing permanent happiness though, like the Dharma path, so my cake is stained with Samsara frosting.

I always feel good when I can act outside the 8 worldly concerns... Which I'm working on memorizing along with the 8 verses of thought transformation. Wish me luck whoever reads this, on me swiftly internalizing these valuable Dharmas.
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« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2010, 06:40:41 PM »

"Sadly though, I'm nowhere near spiritual liberation, so until then, I'm off for some more cake"
    That's how I feel a lot, but I don't see the cake as bringing permanent happiness though, like the Dharma path, so my cake is stained with Samsara frosting.

I always feel good when I can act outside the 8 worldly concerns... Which I'm working on memorizing along with the 8 verses of thought transformation. Wish me luck whoever reads this, on me swiftly internalizing these valuable Dharmas.

it dosent happen overnight so in a way, do take your time. and while doing that recognize that whatever that is done within the 8 worldly concerns brings nothing but suffering at the end of the day

although despite that i keep diving back in Sad
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