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SharpPudding
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« on: July 02, 2010, 08:41:32 PM » |
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Views aren't really True or False in the context of Buddhism, at least that is not what Right and Wrong view teachings are about.
People really like the Kalama Sutta, but they always want to try to make it seem that Buddha threw his hands up in the air and said to believe in whatever because you'll never know. I really like the Kalama Sutta too, but for different reasons, I actually read it to the end for one, and Buddha Shakyamuni pointed out what really matters in a view, whether or not it is skillful, leading to happiness, blameless, and even worthy of praise.
This teaching is actually really important to me, it's sort of the master key for using all other teachings properly I think.
Ahh! I need to eat something!
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GonzoEnder
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« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2010, 08:53:51 PM » |
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Thus, the Buddha provides ten specific sources which should not be used to accept a specific teaching as true, without further verification:
1. Oral history
2. Traditional
3. News sources
4. Scriptures or other official texts
5. Suppositional reasoning
6. Philosophical reasoning
7. Common sense
8. One's own opinions
9. Authorities or experts
10. One's own teacher
I love that. Number 10. asks you to question your own guru! That type of 'question everything' mentality seems prevalent in Buddha's words.
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« Last Edit: July 02, 2010, 09:11:14 PM by GonzoEnder »
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
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waybackhome83
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« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2010, 09:06:13 PM » |
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In the Kalama Sutta, the teaching is never really misperceived, I think. People don't see it as a sort of submission by the Buddha, but rather - as it is and should be - an invitation to think about whatever you read or hear and not just accept it on blind faith, but to contemplate and accept what you find to be true based on your own reasoning what you come to know as being true, or at least believing to be true, rather than saying, "It must be true because he said it." It's not to say that the Buddha is wrong, or could be, or that experts or authorities are wrong, but the teaching serves as a reminder of the importance of realising things for yourself and coming to an understanding for yourself: as with any teacher, Buddha can only guide and provide the tools - his words are completely useless to us without practising the inherent teachings and understanding them: anyone can recite books' worth of scripture or make a million offerings - it means nothing if there's no real transformation made, which is why it's important to think about things, to contemplate and come to our own conclusions. Kind regards, Sandy  |
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GonzoEnder
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« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2010, 09:12:57 PM » |
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his words are completely useless to us without practising the inherent teachings and understanding them: anyone can recite books' worth of scripture or make a million offerings - it means nothing if there's no real transformation made -Sandy But if transformation is made then those offerings would be of great benefit. |
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
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SharpPudding
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« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2010, 09:29:13 PM » |
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Way, it would be a good idea for you to listen to or read a sutta master's explanation of it. This is one sutta I never get tired of hearing explanation and commentary on. It's really a core teaching of Buddha Dharma that is repeated over and over in the Buddha's teachings in various ways.
To think, do, and say what is skillful, leading to happiness, blameless, and worthy of praise by the wise.
That's what Buddha Shakyamuni taught, a clean sharp sword to cut through a thicket of views.
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« Last Edit: July 02, 2010, 09:36:09 PM by SharpPudding »
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waybackhome83
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« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2010, 09:45:43 PM » |
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Gonzo, yeah, that's perfectly true. I was talking about if people simply make offerings or read words without the understanding behind them or with a specific motivation in mind, then they are just empty practices that bring no real benefit - so why do them? Some might do it through blind belief, perhaps. Mr/Ms Pudding, if you disagree with my last post, please feel free to point out where I've misunderstood the point in that specific teaching of the Buddha - always a bonus to learn something new  Kind regards, Sandy |
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SharpPudding
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« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2010, 10:34:39 PM » |
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That's a good attitude to take towards correction. If we always reject correction or criticism just because it's aimed at us, we miss a lot.
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waybackhome83
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« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2010, 07:04:32 AM » |
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Of course it's a good attitude  Why debate on a matter for any other reason than to learn? Unless of course, it's simply to sharpen debating skills, which is always a good thing to practice. However, if I debate simply to be right, what's the point? It's just ego showing off, and it's very transparent; also, it doesn't really lead anywhere - no progression is made. So yeah, feel free to point out if/when and where you think I might be wrong and I'll happily discuss: I can't expect to pick out flaws in your arguments and believe myself to be above criticising - that wouldn't make sense. Kind regards, Sandy |
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GonzoEnder
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« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2010, 10:39:16 AM » |
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Actually Sandy, I would debate (hehe) over the fact that I believe if you debate Buddhism just to show off your ego, It is more than just no progress. I debate that is is fairly heavy negative karma which could carry results perhaps as severe as not being able to recieve teachings in the future, due to your practicing Buddhism in order to decrease enlightened qualities! That is exactly what you are doing if you debate from an ego dominant mind!
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
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Joey
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« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2010, 05:46:32 PM » |
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Actually Sandy, I would debate (hehe) over the fact that I believe if you debate Buddhism just to show off your ego, It is more than just no progress. I debate that is is fairly heavy negative karma which could carry results perhaps as severe as not being able to recieve teachings in the future, due to your practicing Buddhism in order to decrease enlightened qualities! That is exactly what you are doing if you debate from an ego dominant mind!
when you debate to show that you know more, and not for learning, you will eventually train your mind in a way that results you shut off the probability of receiving teachings in the future because your mind will think that it is too smart to require teachings from such and such. because you feel you're too good already. how can any teaching go in during this state of mind?! its not about heavy negative karma, it is about harmful mental habits. therefore we're taught to not reject any Dharma advice given especially by senior students. So please dont challenge wai meng. you can debate with him but doing it to prove him wrong or anything is not a good idea. |
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
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waybackhome83
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« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2010, 06:06:32 PM » |
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Debating to prove anyone wrong isn't a great idea. If you're right, great - debate in a way that can allow others to learn, and if you're proven to be "wrong", then use the information to learn; always a bonus! But everyone here's still learning - without exception - otherwise we'd have no need to be working towards Enlightenment Gonzo - technicalaties, man!  Progress is a positive term, that's to say progression can only move forwards, it can't stay still; I thought the implication was there that no progression in something where progress is key is in itself negative. But I apologise for not actively including the idea that you can go backwards and decline too Kind regards, Sandy |
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GonzoEnder
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« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2010, 11:53:30 PM » |
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wait what were we talking about  |
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
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Joey
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« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2010, 11:55:20 PM » |
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wait what were we talking about  |
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
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