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wmw111
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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2010, 09:57:35 PM »

thanks joey, u put it succinctly, i was struggling with my words Smiley
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'Fear is the absolute confusion between you and your projections'

'You are very preoccupied with getting what you want, so you will fail to see what is'

~ Chogyam Trungpa ~
GonzoEnder
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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2010, 10:01:17 PM »

*Leaves computer.*

*Takes a shower.*

 Grin

Damn dirty people!
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
awacs
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« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2010, 01:48:57 AM »

It is important to keep an appearance that makes others comfortable to get their respect.

Only if you are doing it out of compassion for others.

There are many examples of Buddhists who are in essence, hippies...they dont groom, they do badly at work, they have horrible social skills and blow the horns that they're Buddhists, because buddhists are not supposed to be materialistic therefore there is no need to groom. Lots of those in malaysia. They're untidy and quirky in a bad way. It gives the impression that Buddhists are losers and if you go to church you will be one of those highly successful Christians.

Oh yes, we should institute a Dharma police, and we could call them Dharstapo. Then they would walk around and take care of mental purity of Buddhists. Their moto should be: "Success is liberation" and on theirs liberation camps it should be written: Erfolg macht frei.

I know it may sound funny but this has been the sterotype here in malaysia for the past 30-40 years or so.  And due to this the general public lose respect for Buddhists which also means less support for the Sangha around.

You are talking about process of diminishing a collective karma to have a Buddhism on this world. What did you expect? All things are impermanent.

Therefore it is important for Buddhists to maintain at least a presentable image for the masses so that they wont dismiss Buddhism in a negative light.

Yes, this is a Bodhisattva commitment and a vow. But only person who can benefit from such a conduct is you. Which means that you should conduct in such way, but for other reasons than those you stated.
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Joey
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« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2010, 10:39:07 PM »

It is important to keep an appearance that makes others comfortable to get their respect.

Only if you are doing it out of compassion for others. Yep, exactly. To not disturb their minds or plant wrong impressions.

There are many examples of Buddhists who are in essence, hippies...they dont groom, they do badly at work, they have horrible social skills and blow the horns that they're Buddhists, because buddhists are not supposed to be materialistic therefore there is no need to groom. Lots of those in malaysia. They're untidy and quirky in a bad way. It gives the impression that Buddhists are losers and if you go to church you will be one of those highly successful Christians.

Oh yes, we should institute a Dharma police, and we could call them Dharstapo. Then they would walk around and take care of mental purity of Buddhists. Their moto should be: "Success is liberation" and on theirs liberation camps it should be written: Erfolg macht frei.
Haha good one. There are also people commenting on youtube, saying that whatever Kechara is doing is not the Buddha's teaching and that the Buddha only said to see things as they are.....lol. Go check out the youtube vid comments. More police there.

You are talking about process of diminishing a collective karma to have a Buddhism on this world. What did you expect? All things are impermanent.
But we can do something to reverse this, no?

Yes, this is a Bodhisattva commitment and a vow. But only person who can benefit from such a conduct is you. Which means that you should conduct in such way, but for other reasons than those you stated.
I am doing that. I dont feel it is a vow. It should be the responsibility of anyone who calls themselves a Buddhist openly to take care of their conduct to not disturb the minds of others.
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
awacs
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« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2010, 12:18:12 AM »

Yep, exactly. To not disturb their minds or plant wrong impressions.

You can't really plant impressions in anyone brains but yours. Even a being as successful as HH Dalai Lama is sometimes disrespected, even a yogi who probably didn't take a bath for months is sometimes revered. So there is no really a connection between appearances and impressions.

There are also people commenting on youtube, saying that whatever Kechara is doing is not the Buddha's teaching and that the Buddha only said to see things as they are.....lol. Go check out the youtube vid comments.

This is probably the result of  disrespecting other peoples beliefs. If you change your attitude towards others, criticism will stop.

You are talking about process of diminishing a collective karma to have a Buddhism on this world. What did you expect? All things are impermanent.
But we can do something to reverse this, no?

No. Only thing you can do is to assure that you yourself see Buddhism flourish, and you do it by offering Dharma to others, and praying for your lamas.
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GonzoEnder
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« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2010, 02:14:52 AM »

Good points from everyone here.

I'll wait to see who has a stronger debate before I take any more showers...  Roll Eyes

Say it with me now, guys, M I D D L E     W A Y.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Incessant Grooming=bad, waste of time, vain.

Smelly=bad, bye bye friends.

Smelly Yogi in Cave=Different circumstances, and not the same as a Smelly Dharma Center student.
-------------------------------------------------------------
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
Joey
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« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2010, 09:42:44 PM »

Yep, exactly. To not disturb their minds or plant wrong impressions.

You can't really plant impressions in anyone brains but yours. Even a being as successful as HH Dalai Lama is sometimes disrespected, even a yogi who probably didn't take a bath for months is sometimes revered. So there is no really a connection between appearances and impressions.

There are also people commenting on youtube, saying that whatever Kechara is doing is not the Buddha's teaching and that the Buddha only said to see things as they are.....lol. Go check out the youtube vid comments.

This is probably the result of  disrespecting other peoples beliefs. If you change your attitude towards others, criticism will stop.

You are talking about process of diminishing a collective karma to have a Buddhism on this world. What did you expect? All things are impermanent.
But we can do something to reverse this, no?

No. Only thing you can do is to assure that you yourself see Buddhism flourish, and you do it by offering Dharma to others, and praying for your lamas.

Sounds interesting, but what makes you so sure that your answers are the absolute truth? To be honest, the toned used for your replies imply that you seem to know exactly what is going on, which might be good or bad but what can be done to help/counteract against the concerns?

If i remember correctly talking about the truth out of context also breaks the vow pertaining to speech especially if it does not help or alleviate the situation and is just said for the sake of saying.

I do like your analysis of the situation, but is there a solution to some of them or at least, some suggestions on how to lessen it? That would be very helpful indeed.
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
awacs
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« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2010, 01:06:23 AM »

Sounds interesting, but what makes you so sure that your answers are the absolute truth?

I'm not sure of course. But this is the Buddhist forum, and i hope we all share common goal. My enlightenment of course  Grin . Just kidding, I see this forum as a platform for exchanging the views. So although you somehow got impression that I'm sure in my answers, they are more than open for debate. Problem is possibly that I'm not native English speaking person, so I'm used to write absolute minimum for presenting my thought.

To be honest, the toned used for your replies imply that you seem to know exactly what is going on, which might be good or bad but what can be done to help/counteract against the concerns?

This is a tough one. My answers are based on my limited understanding of karma, emptiness and dependent arising. They are just logical, but there are some instances of Buddhist literature which seems to confirm both of our opposite views concerning possibility to help anyone.

So, for example, when lord Buddha was a Bodhisattva in one of his previous lives, he was in a ferry with some 499 merchants. Having being high Bodhisattva, he could read other peoples thoughts, and then he realize that one of the passengers had intention to kill all the peoples on board, by sinking the ferry. So, out of concern for that being not to commit such a heavy karma of killing 499 beings including an Arhant, Bodhisattva killed him instead, being fully aware of karmic consequences for himself.

If I'm right, that Bodhisattva could never help those 498 merchants and himself, if they had karma to die there and then. In this view, there was absolutely no need to kill anyone, because although potential killer could serve as condition, without causes simultaneously present in other 499 minds he could not do anything to anyone. That would suggest that you are right in your views, and I'm not.

If i remember correctly talking about the truth out of context also breaks the vow pertaining to speech especially if it does not help or alleviate the situation and is just said for the sake of saying.

I'm not sure. There is such a vows against talking to someone unprepared about some higher meanings of emptiness, and about idle talks. However, mine was neither. I was basically talking about connection between laws of karma and dependent origination, and certainly not being idle talking. In situation like these it is best viewed how great of disadvantage is a lack of the lama on forum.

I do like your analysis of the situation, but is there a solution to some of them or at least, some suggestions on how to lessen it? That would be very helpful indeed.

Well, as I understand it does not matter whose view is correct, you still must help other beings. If my view is right, then it is absolutely necessary to help other beings because YOU are suffering, and refusal to help someone - anyone, will only have a karmic consequence of seeing yourself not being helped when in need, which is not pleasant result.

On the other hand if your view is right, then it is absolutely necessary to help other beings because THEY are suffering, and refusal to help someone - anyone, will only have a karmic consequence of seeing yourself not being helped when in need, which is not pleasant result.

So basically, concerning need for doing something, the result is exactly the same - you must do it. The only difference between these views is in regarding objects as having some kind of inherent nature which I think is implied in a way you are looking at things/persons, and in nature of motivation for action.
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bluestone
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« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2012, 08:06:25 PM »

hope we all can transform our work place when we genuinely implement the truth in life.
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wmw111
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« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2012, 08:20:12 PM »

Hi bluestone
Where are you now?
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'Fear is the absolute confusion between you and your projections'

'You are very preoccupied with getting what you want, so you will fail to see what is'

~ Chogyam Trungpa ~
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