New Age and its misinterpretation on Je Tsongkhapa

[spiritnoname]

:p I'm not going to get angry with Joey any time soon so no worries there.

 I don't know why I don't see the difference between good motivation and bad yet. I mean, I see why you could call one good and one bad due to their results. But they have the same origins in attachment or just because. What makes one good and one bad? Just that you're mindful of the outcome?

good motivation is done without attachment. When you start mixing around with people, you'll know.

I don't know how I could ever act without attachment really.

[Joey]

I don't know how I could ever act without attachment really.

lol, that is where all the sutras that you have read so far, all your claims to attainments (if you ever have any fantasies) are false because you cannot understand their true meaning. So the more sutras you read, the more poisonous they become to you.

I know your type. you tend to choose exotic sutras and mantras over basic, down to earth dharma texts. So the next time you think that ppl here are not high practitioners or whatsoever, just remember that we can do what you cannot: have entirely good motivation where the original intent of the action is purely for the sake of others.

seriously, stop spending so much time in front of the computer. go out there and have some human interaction. you need that to understand the dharma fully. you're never going to understand a thing if you just think about it because your mind has no idea of what is it like in the world outside your house.

[spiritnoname]

I don't know how I could ever act without attachment really.

lol, that is where all the sutras that you have read so far, all your claims to attainments (if you ever have any fantasies) are false because you cannot understand their true meaning. So the more sutras you read, the more poisonous they become to you.

I know your type. you tend to choose exotic sutras and mantras over basic, down to earth dharma texts. So the next time you think that ppl here are not high practitioners or whatsoever, just remember that we can do what you cannot: have entirely good motivation where the original intent of the action is purely for the sake of others.

seriously, stop spending so much time in front of the computer. go out there and have some human interaction. you need that to understand the dharma fully. you're never going to understand a thing if you just think about it because your mind has no idea of what is it like in the world outside your house.

 Hmm,...  maybe, but the poisons are with me whether I'm in the house or not. I don't choose exotic sutras, I just read what I come across. I really haven't read that much.

[Plinio Tsai]

Spiritnoname

Think on what Joey is saying to you... he is not giving you this hard time just because he wants to prove to you something .... let's think together, ok?... what will going to happen when we go out and try to interact with people? Do we honestly think that our mind will only feel attachment? And what about hate? And what about love? And what about to feel we or others are ignorants?... Among all of those things we are going to experience suffering on ourselves and to perceive sufferings on others, that's when we will feel COMPASSION! That's when we will understand the beginning of the process of not act with self-center mind (what you call attachment)... when we see clearly that we are not able to help, powerless to take over ourselves the sufferings of others, then, in this precise moment, WE WILL NEED TO ASK FOR HELP... we will need a Teacher, and we will need teachings, and THEN THE DHARMA WILL MAKE DIFFERENCE... of course in our level of development it is impossible to be freed of attachment, but it is not the attachment you are feeling, it is a much much more subtle one, called self-grasping... this is what the Dharma talks about... a very subtle way of how we perceive reality... but for our level it is just impossible to perceive it with clarity... so we have to continously training in alertness, mindfullness and so on... until we get this level... so, let's try not misunderstand what Buddha Shakyamuni was teaching and confuse it with self-centered mind.... self-centered mind is the type of mind that appears to us all the time and it is the responsible for our inner sufferings in a gross level... That is what Joey is saying to us to observe, to pratice the antidote Dharmas and to, eventually, eliminate the self-centered mind, what you called "attachment"...

Joey has more experience in Dharma than you and me... just look to his karma: he is close to Tsem Tulku... so, we need to think about what he is saying with care... 

[Joey]

Hmm,...  maybe, but the poisons are with me whether I'm in the house or not. I don't choose exotic sutras, I just read what I come across. I really haven't read that much.

If you didint, why quote them? why not stick with basic texts like shantideva's way of life of a bodhisatva, 8 verses of trasforming the mind and the 50 verses of guru devotion? And prior to that, sound understanding of the 4 noble truths, the 8 noble paths, the 8 worldy conditions and 12 interdependent originations? They're all over the net. You didint read them for one reason: because you found them too basic and boring and there is not intrested. You also conviniently skipped many of Rinpoche's talks on training the mind for more exotic material and phrases. why?

yes they are, but you cannot identify them properly unless you interact with people and while doing that observe how your mind reacts when people act unexpectedly. Then you'll know what the three poisons really are. They wont reveal their true form unless you go out and talk with people, know people, acknowledge people and see people and feel their feelings, observe your intentions and their intentions. You can learn so much dharma about natural human behaviour just by stepping out of your house.

Rinpoche did mention that we're humans, we're social creatures. We need to interact with others in order to function well.

Spiritnoname

Think on what Joey is saying to you... he is not giving you this hard time just because he wants to prove to you something .... let's think together, ok?... what will going to happen when we go out and try to interact with people? Do we honestly think that our mind will only feel attachment? And what about hate? And what about love? And what about to feel we or others are ignorants?... Among all of those things we are going to experience suffering on ourselves and to perceive sufferings on others, that's when we will feel COMPASSION! That's when we will understand the beginning of the process of not act with self-center mind (what you call attachment)... when we see clearly that we are not able to help, powerless to take over ourselves the sufferings of others, then, in this precise moment, WE WILL NEED TO ASK FOR HELP... we will need a Teacher, and we will need teachings, and THEN THE DHARMA WILL MAKE DIFFERENCE... of course in our level of development it is impossible to be freed of attachment, but it is not the attachment you are feeling, it is a much much more subtle one, called self-grasping... this is what the Dharma talks about... a very subtle way of how we perceive reality... but for our level it is just impossible to perceive it with clarity... so we have to continously training in alertness, mindfullness and so on... until we get this level... so, let's try not misunderstand what Buddha Shakyamuni was teaching and confuse it with self-centered mind.... self-centered mind is the type of mind that appears to us all the time and it is the responsible for our inner sufferings in a gross level... That is what Joey is saying to us to observe, to pratice the antidote Dharmas and to, eventually, eliminate the self-centered mind, what you called "attachment"...

Joey has more experience in Dharma than you and me... just look to his karma: he is close to Tsem Tulku... so, we need to think about what he is saying with care... 

actually,  I hate scolding people and talking to them, convincing them, debating with them, etc because it's very draining. you get tired easily if you do it but in some cases you need to especially if the other party holds wrong concepts and is unable to let go. I dont like doing that. I hate being someone that has to correct people. It's tiring, I have to doublecheck my mind and see if it reacts appropriately, have to not let a chance for ego to catch hold and everything. But if people learn from it, I dont mind.

The reason why spirit fails to understand such basic concepts is because he did not interact with people. It's not really his fault considering the traumatic events that caused him to be like that, but he needs to know it's not okay to hide. I know because I was once like that. I had friends who almost destroyed me with sweet words (that were not true) and I did put some really good friends through a hard time, they were harsh to me and it worked and they helped me to wake up. I would have saved myself a lot of mental torture if I just agreed to what spirit said and pretended to be humble. But then it'll mislead people in the forum and increase spirit's ego.

My experience in the dharma is actually very little....I'm not that close to Rinpoche. In fact I live quite far from Rinpoche and Kechara House. I havent met Rinpoche until last year....after searching for a Guru for so long, and not before a lot of purification came in the form of severe conjutuvitis which lasted for a month and some devastating news from a friend. I really had to make strong aspirations and connections and create the conditions for a teacher: reducing the thought that I had a lot of knowledge and ego so that I would be more receptive to his teachings. I went through many of his teachings as well, sometimes a few times to learn something.

[spiritnoname]

Hmm,...  maybe, but the poisons are with me whether I'm in the house or not. I don't choose exotic sutras, I just read what I come across. I really haven't read that much.

If you didint, why quote them? why not stick with basic texts like shantideva's way of life of a bodhisatva, 8 verses of trasforming the mind and the 50 verses of guru devotion? And prior to that, sound understanding of the 4 noble truths, the 8 noble paths, the 8 worldy conditions and 12 interdependent originations? They're all over the net. You didint read them for one reason: because you found them too basic and boring and there is not intrested. You also conviniently skipped many of Rinpoche's talks on training the mind for more exotic material and phrases. why?

yes they are, but you cannot identify them properly unless you interact with people and while doing that observe how your mind reacts when people act unexpectedly. Then you'll know what the three poisons really are. They wont reveal their true form unless you go out and talk with people, know people, acknowledge people and see people and feel their feelings, observe your intentions and their intentions. You can learn so much dharma about natural human behaviour just by stepping out of your house.

Rinpoche did mention that we're humans, we're social creatures. We need to interact with others in order to function well.

Spiritnoname

Think on what Joey is saying to you... he is not giving you this hard time just because he wants to prove to you something .... let's think together, ok?... what will going to happen when we go out and try to interact with people? Do we honestly think that our mind will only feel attachment? And what about hate? And what about love? And what about to feel we or others are ignorants?... Among all of those things we are going to experience suffering on ourselves and to perceive sufferings on others, that's when we will feel COMPASSION! That's when we will understand the beginning of the process of not act with self-center mind (what you call attachment)... when we see clearly that we are not able to help, powerless to take over ourselves the sufferings of others, then, in this precise moment, WE WILL NEED TO ASK FOR HELP... we will need a Teacher, and we will need teachings, and THEN THE DHARMA WILL MAKE DIFFERENCE... of course in our level of development it is impossible to be freed of attachment, but it is not the attachment you are feeling, it is a much much more subtle one, called self-grasping... this is what the Dharma talks about... a very subtle way of how we perceive reality... but for our level it is just impossible to perceive it with clarity... so we have to continously training in alertness, mindfullness and so on... until we get this level... so, let's try not misunderstand what Buddha Shakyamuni was teaching and confuse it with self-centered mind.... self-centered mind is the type of mind that appears to us all the time and it is the responsible for our inner sufferings in a gross level... That is what Joey is saying to us to observe, to pratice the antidote Dharmas and to, eventually, eliminate the self-centered mind, what you called "attachment"...

Joey has more experience in Dharma than you and me... just look to his karma: he is close to Tsem Tulku... so, we need to think about what he is saying with care... 

actually,  I hate scolding people and talking to them, convincing them, debating with them, etc because it's very draining. you get tired easily if you do it but in some cases you need to especially if the other party holds wrong concepts and is unable to let go. I dont like doing that. I hate being someone that has to correct people. It's tiring, I have to doublecheck my mind and see if it reacts appropriately, have to not let a chance for ego to catch hold and everything. But if people learn from it, I dont mind.

The reason why spirit fails to understand such basic concepts is because he did not interact with people. It's not really his fault considering the traumatic events that caused him to be like that, but he needs to know it's not okay to hide. I know because I was once like that. I had friends who almost destroyed me with sweet words (that were not true) and I did put some really good friends through a hard time, they were harsh to me and it worked and they helped me to wake up. I would have saved myself a lot of mental torture if I just agreed to what spirit said and pretended to be humble. But then it'll mislead people in the forum and increase spirit's ego.

My experience in the dharma is actually very little....I'm not that close to Rinpoche. In fact I live quite far from Rinpoche and Kechara House. I havent met Rinpoche until last year....after searching for a Guru for so long, and not before a lot of purification came in the form of severe conjutuvitis which lasted for a month and some devastating news from a friend. I really had to make strong aspirations and connections and create the conditions for a teacher: reducing the thought that I had a lot of knowledge and ego so that I would be more receptive to his teachings. I went through many of his teachings as well, sometimes a few times to learn something.

I've read Shantideva's Way of the Bodhisattva, and the 50 verses of Guru Devotion. Not the Eight Verses of Thought Transformation though.  The four noble truths, the eight noble paths, 8 worldly conditions I have looked over lightly and understood fairly well, but I don't have them memorized and I haven't read commentaries on them so I'm not comfortable pretending I know about it.  I've looked over the 12 interdependent originations, and I don't understand that, so I definitely don't feel comfortable pretending I know about that. I didn't skip any talks, I just watch them as I find them.

I deal with my family that I live with, my family is like the condensed form of the rest of the world, if my poisons haven't expressed themselves in relation to them I don't think it's likely they exist. My good friend jokingly said, "Family is karma". lol If something is going to push my buttons it's going to be right here I think.

I'm glad you make an effort to help others and double check your mind.

The seemingly outward events of my life are due to the most inward qualities of myself. So if anyone is to be responsible for my past it's me. I'm not going to accept the blame, that will only make things worse, but only I can really make things better so I accept responsibility.   

What's conjutuvitis?

[Plinio Tsai]

Very good attitude Spiritnoname!

Joey, relax man, you are doing a great job here in this forum!!! And I'm sure you are doing a great job as a teacher ...

Conjuntivitis is an eye infection cause by virus or bacteria... it get red and lots and lots of yellow stuff come out... sorry to hear that Joey, but at least you do not have to suffer anymore with the seeds that rippen...

[spiritnoname]

Very good attitude Spiritnoname!

Joey, relax man, you are doing a great job here in this forum!!! And I'm sure you are doing a great job as a teacher ...

Conjuntivitis is an eye infection cause by virus or bacteria... it get red and lots and lots of yellow stuff come out... sorry to hear that Joey, but at least you do not have to suffer anymore with the seeds that rippen...

Eeek conjunctivitis,... I'm glad you've recovered Joey!

[Joey]

I've read Shantideva's Way of the Bodhisattva, and the 50 verses of Guru Devotion. Not the Eight Verses of Thought Transformation though.  The four noble truths, the eight noble paths, 8 worldly conditions I have looked over lightly and understood fairly well, but I don't have them memorized and I haven't read commentaries on them so I'm not comfortable pretending I know about it.  I've looked over the 12 interdependent originations, and I don't understand that, so I definitely don't feel comfortable pretending I know about that. I didn't skip any talks, I just watch them as I find them.

If you dont understand those, what makes you think you can understand sutras properly? If you still dont understand them, ask around about those. Read books about those. dont go for exotic sutras or texts like diamond cutter sutra or some tantric commentary. Seriously, I only saw you so far quoting Rinpoche on the mystical things, but very little on mind training related material. You dont even dicuss much about mind training material. It's like expecting a 3 year old child who hasnt even memorized the alphabet to read a shakspere novel if you dont understand those.

The main reason why you dont understand those texts is because you use them for your intellectual masturbation where you read them to make yourself feel more superior and to get the feel good feeling. Until you put those words as part of your life, you act by them and abide by them, you will not understand a thing and if you do tell ppl you're a buddhist, you're giving buddhism a bad name.

the 8 verses of thought transformation has already been covered by Rinpoche. Go download. If you can practice even one sentence of it, you can already be a buddha.


I deal with my family that I live with, my family is like the condensed form of the rest of the world, if my poisons haven't expressed themselves in relation to them I don't think it's likely they exist. My good friend jokingly said, "Family is karma". lol If something is going to push my buttons it's going to be right here I think.

and the frog in the well declares to the bird "the world isnt as big as you say it is! it's just as small as these brick walls and some water! there are no such things as trees and the ocean!"

your family is not a condensed form of the rest of the world. go out there and meet people. Go visit orphanages, help out in soup kitchens, help animals in the shelter, entertain old folks in retirement homes. It's part of your practice.


I'm glad you make an effort to help others and double check your mind.

The seemingly outward events of my life are due to the most inward qualities of myself. So if anyone is to be responsible for my past it's me. I'm not going to accept the blame, that will only make things worse, but only I can really make things better so I accept responsibility.   

you accept responsibility only in words? because i dont really see you trying to fix them. people who accept responsibility find little or no need to justify their ideas. They just wipe the shit off the ceiling and not complain.

[spiritnoname]

I've read Shantideva's Way of the Bodhisattva, and the 50 verses of Guru Devotion. Not the Eight Verses of Thought Transformation though.  The four noble truths, the eight noble paths, 8 worldly conditions I have looked over lightly and understood fairly well, but I don't have them memorized and I haven't read commentaries on them so I'm not comfortable pretending I know about it.  I've looked over the 12 interdependent originations, and I don't understand that, so I definitely don't feel comfortable pretending I know about that. I didn't skip any talks, I just watch them as I find them.

If you dont understand those, what makes you think you can understand sutras properly? If you still dont understand them, ask around about those. Read books about those. dont go for exotic sutras or texts like diamond cutter sutra or some tantric commentary. Seriously, I only saw you so far quoting Rinpoche on the mystical things, but very little on mind training related material. You dont even dicuss much about mind training material. It's like expecting a 3 year old child who hasnt even memorized the alphabet to read a shakspere novel if you dont understand those.

The main reason why you dont understand those texts is because you use them for your intellectual masturbation where you read them to make yourself feel more superior and to get the feel good feeling. Until you put those words as part of your life, you act by them and abide by them, you will not understand a thing and if you do tell ppl you're a buddhist, you're giving buddhism a bad name.

the 8 verses of thought transformation has already been covered by Rinpoche. Go download. If you can practice even one sentence of it, you can already be a buddha.


I deal with my family that I live with, my family is like the condensed form of the rest of the world, if my poisons haven't expressed themselves in relation to them I don't think it's likely they exist. My good friend jokingly said, "Family is karma". lol If something is going to push my buttons it's going to be right here I think.

and the frog in the well declares to the bird "the world isnt as big as you say it is! it's just as small as these brick walls and some water! there are no such things as trees and the ocean!"

your family is not a condensed form of the rest of the world. go out there and meet people. Go visit orphanages, help out in soup kitchens, help animals in the shelter, entertain old folks in retirement homes. It's part of your practice.


I'm glad you make an effort to help others and double check your mind.

The seemingly outward events of my life are due to the most inward qualities of myself. So if anyone is to be responsible for my past it's me. I'm not going to accept the blame, that will only make things worse, but only I can really make things better so I accept responsibility.   

you accept responsibility only in words? because i dont really see you trying to fix them. people who accept responsibility find little or no need to justify their ideas. They just wipe the shit off the ceiling and not complain.

 Sometimes wiping shit off the ceiling, so to speak, involves justifying your ideas.

[Joey]

 Sometimes wiping shit off the ceiling, so to speak, involves justifying your ideas.

justifying your ideas = covering up. So you pretend to fix your life by justifying what you did and how you think? fantastic.

[spiritnoname]

 Sometimes wiping shit off the ceiling, so to speak, involves justifying your ideas.

justifying your ideas = covering up. So you pretend to fix your life by justifying what you did and how you think? fantastic.

 I was thinking by justifying you meant explaining, not making up fake motivations.

[Joey]

I was thinking by justifying you meant explaining, not making up fake motivations.

why bother seeking an explaination unless you dont want to face what's happening?

[spiritnoname]

I was thinking by justifying you meant explaining, not making up fake motivations.

why bother seeking an explaination unless you dont want to face what's happening?

 umm,.. sorry, but how can you face what's happening if you don't understand it? If you seek an explanation, then you want to face what's happening I would expect.

[Joey]

umm,.. sorry, but how can you face what's happening if you don't understand it? If you seek an explanation, then you want to face what's happening I would expect.

you can, once you stop being obsessed with trying to understand what is happening and just face it.