Monks

[goat]

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/4CC5C593-3BCF-4959-B488-5761D8705BA4.htm

[Joey]

personally, I avoid from criticizing them because they are still wearing robes that represent the Buddha, and also we do not know of the situation in that location to trigger such a reaction although many-a-buddhists have heavily criticize them.

[Scott Hutton]

Well, this Buddhist could not support them more.  I have been urging my list to send out Good Stuff to them for days.

Then again, I believe in "engaged Buddhism" and that the notion of politically impartial monks, if it entails keeping silence in the presence of evil, is a perversion far more vitiating than sexual ones in which the laity may indulge. 

The Buddha had no trouble Speaking Up.  Why should we who come later be different?  Would you have India's Untouchables remain untouchable?  If so, I say, for shame!

Thankfully, we do not have to address the issue but, everyone here consider:  what would you do were a Dalai Lama to ignore the Holocaust?  if he were to tip toe over its existence?  If, for reasons of keeping peace, he kept silence when its very history were denied?

I know what I'd do.  I'd get the hell out.  Fast.

I think they are splendid men.  I think the ani's who joined them are special women.  I think the laypeople who followed are heroes.

And I think the soi-disant "Buddhists" criticizing them, huddling as usual behind the status quo, should be ashamed of themselves.

Scott

[spiritnoname]

I don't know the situation these monks are in, but they seem to be voiding the protection monks usually have by getting involved in politics. Protests, boycotts, these things can be done for any cause, good or bad. What we really need is for people to know the difference between good and bad. I don't know what I would do in there situation, but I think if you are a monk you should keep the conduct of a monk and not get involved in politics.

[clouded]

I agree with spiritnoname that if you're a monk, you shouldn't get involved in politics. But are these Burmese monks involved in politics??? I've been following the news since the protests started and the only thing i see is that whatever they are doing now is right.

These laypeople have been supporting the Sangha since many centuries ago and are always supportive of the Sangha even though they live in oppression and poverty (they spend about 80% of their income on food. Now the junta has just increased the price of petrol by 500%!!! This will cause a chain reaction of price increase for food, transportation, etc. The majority of Burmese need to walk for many hours to go to work because they cannot afford transportation. Not to mention their human rights even yet!!!). The monks in return teach them the Dhamma. But today, the monks are doing something more which is fighting for the people's rights (to happiness, freedom, justice, etc.).

And they are doing this by protesting with such a simple gesture of turning the alms bowl upside down and chanting the Karaniya Metta Sutta. (notice that so far no bombs have been used, only loving kindness) And you know what are they risking? They are risking their monkhood, their lives and their reputation because some/a lot of people will be criticising them for what they are doing now. I feel that because of their actions today, Buddhism will survive in Myanmar for a very long time to come because they have touched the people's heart.

[clouded]

Most importantly, who are we to judge their actions. All of us here have a proper house with all the comforts of life. Each of us have at least 1 car and some even more. We are able to choose our government too.

The actions of the Burmese are the most important. As a truly devout Buddhist country, if the monks were to break the Vinaya,  surely they will be the first to criticise. But today, they are forming human chains when the monks march. This shows that they are supportive of the monks action. So who are we to judge...

Anyway, the latest update is that the size of the protests have grown to about 100,000. Burmese people have always been timid in nature but today, they dare stand for their rights because of the monks.

May the Burmese be liberated from oppression and poverty. May the Sasana last for a very long time to come in Myanmar.

[clouded]

Message from His Holiness the Dalai Lama
Burmanet News, September 23, 2007

I extent my support and solidarity with the recent peaceful movement for
democracy in Burma.
I fully support their call for freedom and democracy and take this opportunity to appeal to freedom-loving people all over the world to support such non-violent movements.

Moreover, I wish to convey my sincere appreciation and admiration to the large number of fellow Buddhists monks for advocating democracy and freedom in Burma.

As a Buddhist monk, I am appealing to the members of the military regime who believe in Buddhism to act in accordance with the sacred dharma in the spirit of compassion and non-violence.

I pray for the success of this peaceful movement and the early release of fellow Nobel Peace Laureate Aung San Suu Kyi.

Article taken from www.buddhistchannel.tv

[Joey]

I don't know the situation these monks are in, but they seem to be voiding the protection monks usually have by getting involved in politics. Protests, boycotts, these things can be done for any cause, good or bad. What we really need is for people to know the difference between good and bad. I don't know what I would do in there situation, but I think if you are a monk you should keep the conduct of a monk and not get involved in politics.

who are you to know how monks should behave? Have you even hold 1 day of the 200+ monks' vows? have you even lived one day in the monastery? (this is also, quoted from Rinpoche)

having bad impressions about monks of any tradition is damaging. please stop.

[spiritnoname]

 If I were a Dharmapala, I would protect them if they had something worth protecting or were aspiring to something worth protecting.  I would protect them just because they are monks for now, but do what it takes to get them in shape for practicing Dharma by kicking their butts immediately when they do something wrong instead of having them wait until later when they've forgotten what they did. I'd probably find some way of encouraging them too without distracting them, maybe show up as a really ugly undesirable person and tell them I appreciate what they're doing, maybe give them some disgusting but encouraging cookies lol. 

[Joey]

If I were a Dharmapala, I would protect them if they had something worth protecting or were aspiring to something worth protecting.  I would protect them just because they are monks for now, but do what it takes to get them in shape for practicing Dharma by kicking their butts immediately when they do something wrong instead of having them wait until later when they've forgotten what they did. I'd probably find some way of encouraging them too without distracting them, maybe show up as a really ugly undesirable person and tell them I appreciate what they're doing, maybe give them some disgusting but encouraging cookies lol. 

haha, but you are not. HHDL endorsed their actions and if you dont agree with what they are doing, its better to keep quiet than to voice out opinions that generate the causes one to lose one's connection with the dharma.

[spiritnoname]

I would like to be one I think. Yeah, that would be great, but still there's the whole enlightenment thing, I should be enlightened first to be a good one. Big prerequisite,... I wonder if I should pray to the Dharmapala to help me overcome this obstacle to Dharmapalahood lol :p

[Joey]

I would like to be one I think. Yeah, that would be great, but still there's the whole enlightenment thing, I should be enlightened first to be a good one. Big prerequisite,... I wonder if I should pray to the Dharmapala to help me overcome this obstacle to Dharmapalahood lol :p

but ironically, you contradict the Dharma so much, as I have pointed out so many times. You're more of a dharma destroyer than protector

its still not too late to turn back and learn all the basics like the 4 noble truths, 8 noble paths, 12 dependent origins and so forth.

[spiritnoname]

I would like to be one I think. Yeah, that would be great, but still there's the whole enlightenment thing, I should be enlightened first to be a good one. Big prerequisite,... I wonder if I should pray to the Dharmapala to help me overcome this obstacle to Dharmapalahood lol :p

but ironically, you contradict the Dharma so much, as I have pointed out so many times. You're more of a dharma destroyer than protector

its still not too late to turn back and learn all the basics like the 4 noble truths, 8 noble paths, 12 dependent origins and so forth.

  it's not?  Praise the Lord (Buddha)!

 May all the conditions arise for me to come in contact with, learn, perfect, practice, and accomplish all the aims of the Buddha Dharma without tiring and no matter the obstacles or requirements in my path.  Om Ah Ra Pa Tza Na Dhi

[Joey]

it's not?  Praise the Lord (Buddha)!

 May all the conditions arise for me to come in contact with, learn, perfect, practice, and accomplish all the aims of the Buddha Dharma without tiring and no matter the obstacles or requirements in my path.  Om Ah Ra Pa Tza Na Dhi

I've already told you how on MSN. Just praying for it and doing nothing is useless.

[Scott Hutton]

OK, guys - shields up:  let us stop self- obsessing and do whatever we do to surround those wonderful people with protection and light.  That batty Burmese army cold lose its cool any time....

Scott