Monks

[clouded]

Unconfirmed news from somewhere:

-Some groups of soldiers are turning their backs on the junta now

-Snr-Gen Than Shwe, the junta chief disagree with Vice Snr-Gen Maung Aye, his second in command and the commander in chief of the army over the response to the crackdown on protesters.

About the soldiers, i've read somewhere that the family members of the soldiers get to at least live without fear. And they are given privileges too. Perhaps that's why the soldiers are doing what they are doing now. For the safety of their own family members. But i'm not trying to justify their actions. It's just information from the news.

[goat]

http://tinyurl.com/2fqpbz

[spiritnoname]

these monks seem to be setting a bad example by burning vehicles and breaking into stores and allowing people to loot them.

[Scott Hutton]

Does that mean you think the junta is setting a good example?  Have you seen confirmed reports coming out of Burma? 

I doubt it.  Right now, virtually no reportage is getting out and the Burmese internet has been shut down.  A high ranking English diplomat's sources imply that the loss of life has been obscenely understated.

While it doesn't offend me, do keep in mind that there are many people on this list, whose guest you are, who recoil at the very thought of sharp criticism of any monk observing his vows.  If you must make such comments, you would do well to make them in some other venue where they would not offend.  That's what a civilized guest would do.



Scott

[spiritnoname]

Does that mean you think the junta is setting a good example?  Have you seen confirmed reports coming out of Burma? 

I doubt it.  Right now, virtually no reportage is getting out and the Burmese internet has been shut down.  A high ranking English diplomat's sources imply that the loss of life has been obscenely understated.

While it doesn't offend me, do keep in mind that there are many people on this list, whose guest you are, who recoil at the very thought of sharp criticism of any monk observing his vows.  If you must make such comments, you would do well to make them in some other venue where they would not offend.  That's what a civilized guest would do.



Scott

 Of course I don't like what the Junta are doing. But now these monks are dying, and what have they accomplished besides playing part in reducing the population of Burma? Their government got rid of most communication, they're banning cameras.... These protesters are all dead or going to be killed. And that is why monks aren't supposed to get involved with politics. The monks shouldn't have acted on hatred and thrown rocks and burned vehicles.

 Look at the results of their actions!

 Om Ah Khtitigarbha Thaleng Hung
   

[Scott Hutton]

How can we look if we can't see and how can you judge the results if you don't know them.

You have a perfect right to think they should have stuck with the status quo.  Others of us have the right to think otherwise.

The truth, as usual, is probably lurking somewhere in the middle.

You're on one end of the seesaw, I on the other.  That's ok.  Just don't get up without warning and let me fall on my ass.

Oh, spare me the fancy mantras - after 45 years of practice I'm down to a handful, perhaps ten and that's more than enough.  If it's a mantra with some sort of literal translation, mention it to me again and you'll be in need of a good plastic surgeon for that brand new fat lip.  I HATE it when people give mantras literal translations; it puts them on the level of advertising slogans.

We can agree at least that:  something is rotten in the state of Burma.

(Aside to our Eastern friends - that's a reference to Shakespeare's HAMLET, and quite an ominous reference too, for after Hamlet utters this about the state of Denmark, the whole government, slowly at first then quickly, unravels.)


Scott

[spiritnoname]

How can we look if we can't see and how can you judge the results if you don't know them.

You have a perfect right to think they should have stuck with the status quo.  Others of us have the right to think otherwise.

The truth, as usual, is probably lurking somewhere in the middle.

You're on one end of the seesaw, I on the other.  That's ok.  Just don't get up without warning and let me fall on my ass.

Oh, spare me the fancy mantras - after 45 years of practice I'm down to a handful, perhaps ten and that's more than enough.  If it's a mantra with some sort of literal translation, mention it to me again and you'll be in need of a good plastic surgeon for that brand new fat lip.  I HATE it when people give mantras literal translations; it puts them on the level of advertising slogans.

We can agree at least that:  something is rotten in the state of Burma.

(Aside to our Eastern friends - that's a reference to Shakespeare's HAMLET, and quite an ominous reference too, for after Hamlet utters this about the state of Denmark, the whole government, slowly at first then quickly, unravels.)


Scott

 I think we can safely assume what the result is already.

 I just want the monks and everyone else to stick to what the good instructions they have been taught instead of letting hate and attachment carry them away into suffering.

 I'm sure a lot of monks were against this, people don't spend all their time learning and practicing the teachings without getting some insight into the result of their actions or some tendency to choose to follow the teachings, I bet their was some debate before stupidity and mob mentality came in and destroyed the conduct of the majority of the monks, I wish they had listened.   

 I don't know where these monks that have died and will die will go.

 Hopefully everyone who sees what happens to them will be reminded not to let spiritual poisons grow or be expressed in themselves instead of acting like monks who must have embraced hate disguised as compassion to act as they did.
 
 Om Ah Khtitigarbha Thaleng Hung

[Joey]

I think we can safely assume what the result is already.

 I just want the monks and everyone else to stick to what the good instructions they have been taught instead of letting hate and attachment carry them away into suffering.

 I'm sure a lot of monks were against this, people don't spend all their time learning and practicing the teachings without getting some insight into the result of their actions or some tendency to choose to follow the teachings, I bet their was some debate before stupidity and mob mentality came in and destroyed the conduct of the majority of the monks, I wish they had listened.   

 I don't know where these monks that have died and will die will go.

 Hopefully everyone who sees what happens to them will be reminded not to let spiritual poisons grow or be expressed in themselves instead of acting like monks who must have embraced hate disguised as compassion to act as they did.
 
 Om Ah Khtitigarbha Thaleng Hung

all theory. theory looks so good on paper. it's so not buddhist.

So now you think that the Dalai Lama's wrong? he support the monks of burma. your arrogance grows from strength to strength.

[spiritnoname]

I think we can safely assume what the result is already.

 I just want the monks and everyone else to stick to what the good instructions they have been taught instead of letting hate and attachment carry them away into suffering.

 I'm sure a lot of monks were against this, people don't spend all their time learning and practicing the teachings without getting some insight into the result of their actions or some tendency to choose to follow the teachings, I bet their was some debate before stupidity and mob mentality came in and destroyed the conduct of the majority of the monks, I wish they had listened.   

 I don't know where these monks that have died and will die will go.

 Hopefully everyone who sees what happens to them will be reminded not to let spiritual poisons grow or be expressed in themselves instead of acting like monks who must have embraced hate disguised as compassion to act as they did.
 
 Om Ah Khtitigarbha Thaleng Hung

all theory. theory looks so good on paper. it's so not buddhist.

 Well follow the news and see if it adds to or discredits my theory and prediction.

[Scott Hutton]

Dear, much caring, much stressed Joey:

Sometimes one can't, no matter what, keep the kids from playing in the same old mud...forget that it's mixed with chicken shit.  Anyone on a farm can tell you that.

Let them play.  Let them acquire or nourish whatever filth they like...comes a point one has to simply leave a life, like a creek, take its course, even if it leads straight to the cesspool.

I think you're a goddamn miracle.

Much love,

Scott

[Joey]

Dear, much caring, much stressed Joey:

Sometimes one can't, no matter what, keep the kids from playing in the same old mud...forget that it's mixed with chicken shit.  Anyone on a farm can tell you that.

Let them play.  Let them acquire or nourish whatever filth they like...comes a point one has to simply leave a life, like a creek, take its course, even if it leads straight to the cesspool.

I think you're a goddamn miracle.

Much love,

Scott

yea, I guess there's nothing much I can do about this delusional poor boy. oh well.

I have a responsibility to everyone in this forum so that they get the right information, and well, if I cannot correct, I'll nip the weird ideas in the bud so that newbies wont get confused.

spirit, who are you to tell what the monks should or should not do? are you a monk? were you one? how much do you understand the dharma to see? If you have the guts to go against the Dalai Lama just to prove that you are right, look how friggin big your ego is. Even Rinpoche supports the monks in burma. want to go against Rinpoche too? "oh I'm a buddhist. look at my friggin big ego, I'm right, the buddha is wrong, the dalai lama is wrong and even tsem tulku rinpoche is wrong! other buddhists! submit and you will be good buddhists! rawr!"

[goat]

 a 19 year old ventura county california boy.  Trust me you do not know much on a worldly scale, these monks, some in there 80's I read, you think are doing the wrong thing?  come on son.  I am trying hard to like you, really hard.

[Scott Hutton]

OK, Goat (mind if I think of you as "Pan"?), that's all well and good but don't try too much.  And fer sure don't strain.

We don't want ya bustin' nuthin', gettin' a spiritual hernia.  I'm stockin' up on spiritual trusses - figure I'm gonna need to start handin' them out any day now...right and left....


Scott

[goat]

 Pan is good...i surely don't need any spiritual hernias. The physical ones in my back bother me enough   I just took a look at spirit no names myspace and had to spout off I need more patience i figure

[Scott Hutton]

Naw, yew waz jes' reactin' to bullshit.

Fine and normal.

Now pass the Jack Daniels.  I ain't had a hit for ten minutes.

S