Misleading of New Age books on traditions and request for informations

[Plinio Tsai]

.Hi Joey

If it was a New Age book that was understandable but the book is from a so called "Order of Shaolin Ch'an" that resides in EUA and it is claiming to be the original order... that is sad... really sad...

Thank you about the information on Je Phabonka... I really would like from the core of my heart to meet him... but it seems to be impossible... last news I heard about him is that he, or better, the tulku as traviling in China and giving teachings over Shaolin Shi and region, but as long as I do not trust this kind of blablabla gosip information I came again to ask you from KC because I know I can trust in your information...

Thank you again and help me if you have any more information on Je Phabonka, please...

Plinio Tsai

[spiritnoname]

I haven't run into anyone by that name that I'm aware of. Maybe you could look in the phone book.

[Plinio Tsai]

 

[Joey]

About what you read, just remember that new-age style books often confer a lot of misinformation and cannot be trusted and relied upon.

I have not much info of Je Pabongkha, except for a picture of him with Rinpoche and KH members in the tsemtulku website.

spirit, if you start posting nonsense that are not helpful, I'll start erasing them.

[Joey]

Hi Joey

If it was a New Age book that was understandable but the book is from a so called "Order of Shaolin Ch'an" that resides in EUA and it is claiming to be the original order... that is sad... really sad...

Thank you about the information on Je Phabonka... I really would like from the core of my heart to meet him... but it seems to be impossible... last news I heard about him is that he, or better, the tulku as traviling in China and giving teachings over Shaolin Shi and region, but as long as I do not trust this kind of blablabla gosip information I came again to ask you from KC because I know I can trust in your information...

Thank you again Dharma old brother and help me if you have any more information on Je Phabonka, please...

Plinio Tsai

Shaolin C'han? Who wrote it? As far as I know, some books claiming to be about buddhist subjects can be complete nonsense. As far as I know, practices like these are often not exposed because you do need a proper guide to guide you through chan/vippasana meditation. You have to doublecheck the validity of the author. If I remembered correctly, there was an englishman who claimed to be a tulku and wrote many stories about tibet (which were nothing more than imagination) during the 70's and 80's. it gave the people a wrong preception on what tibetan buddhism was until tibetans started moving to America and speaking out.

[Joey]

I'm trying to find Je Phabonka Riponche Tulku through internet but it seems impossible... unfortunately, perhaps, it will not be possible to me to find him....again due to my freak and bad karma...

Do you know any other practice, besides Vajrasattva, that can purify a bad karma related to one's Gurus and Lamas?

Thank you again for your support...
Plinio Tsai

its not just yours, its everyone's bad karma that Heruka couldnt manifest properly in the from of Pabongkha Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche, according to a small biography written by a lama that was given to me from Rinpoche. Pabongkha Rinpoche's incarnations were always "controvercial", in the sense that he did things that didint please the tibetans. He used to go by another name that was pretty much chinese sounding and he did taught emperor qian long of china, and that really irked the tibetans. because of that his title was changed to Pabongkha.

because of the not so recent scandal that involves the 13th Pabongkha, many people have shunned and disregarded him as a dangerous person. If you do google his name, you'll find him being mentioned repeatedly by His Holiness the Dalai Lama in regards to the scandal. It's not his fault that he manifested this way, but our fault that he has to manifest in a way that's pretty much complicated and hard to accept. If you noticed, HHDL only spoke out against him spreading the scandalous practice, and other things regarding ONLY about the practice, but never, ever disparanged or criticized him below the belt (unlike some people in the internet/in some dharma centers who view him badly).

To those of you who have read all about the "scandal" from other sources, we still should not criticize or see him badly, but to respect him as HHDL also mentioned that he is on par with other high lamas of his time and no diffrent. What gives us right to disparange or criticize him?

Yep, its due to our collective bad karma that Heruka cannot manifest in a smoother and less complicated way. 

[Joey]

I totally agree with you! This is crazy behaviour all that people have being done with the controversial... they made it a skandal to sell themselves, to promote their strange point of views... they took HHDL statements and transform it in a harsh talking and a divisive discurse... and worst of all, they tend to cover their own eyes to not see it ... so many propaganda, so many marketings and publicity into something that is so rotine into buddhism... that is really something bad... see, monks practices every day debates in order to get to the point of argues and retorts without personal involvement (among lots and lots of others inner developments), and the media people or more fanatics pick up this and turn it in something so gigantic, so huge... NON-SENSE!!!! HHDL is not the Pope in the Buddhism world... but people wish to do this distorted analogie : Pope for catholics and HHDL for the buddhists... NON-SENSE again! It came by the fact that this guys, this over critizing people have a tremendous lack of effort to read and study... they prefer to see soup opera instead of sitting the butt in a chair and study to really see the differences...

What I'm so amazed in to see  HOW THEY DARE TO CRITIZE them!!! HHDL, Lama Ganchen, Geshe Kelsang or whatever Lama... Including Je Pabhonka... how dare people do this? This are high level bodhisattvas or even Buddhas... we have the freedom to no acept or question the teachings, but to critize them when there is not to critize, it is simple NON-SENSE!

Sorry about this, it is just that I have to train myself better to have more patiente with this kind of behaviour...

when people start kicking up a storm, tell them the scandal does not concern us non-tibetans because the truth is it's nothing more than a political issue. That's what Rinpoche said. if anyone, he should know better. Actually, not just him. if you show the whole story to any high level buddhist practitioner of any sect, their first comments would be "it's political. dont take sides. dont get involved." I think that explains a lot. and I mean a whole lot on how to deal with the whole mess.

there are people who are fanatically into the controversy with the excuse "ohohoh...but but it's not political! xxx practice is dangerous! can kill etc etc!" well, if it's in a forum, for the sake of newbies, reason out with them. them being adamant with their wrong, distorted view and their crazy obsession with politics can be seen by everyone and people will know who to avoid, at least the intelligent ones. If these people pop into your life, avoid them. Tell them nicely what they are doing, and tell them that it generates the conditions for negative karma to arise.

people dare to criticize them because these people do not practice the dharma. Their dharma knowledge is wonderful but their dharma practice is worse than that of a 15 year old nonreligious person. They're also the people who are usually intrested in just the surface of the dharma and think real practice is rituals and they have no proper foundation in the dharma. you can read all the dharma texts and sutras and tantras you want but that does not show that you understand dharma. they demonstrate complete lack of guru devotion by encouraging people to leave their gurus. And, in a certain prominent buddhist forum, there has been a lot of hate campaigns going on against the gelugpas. That forum is very, very dangerous to even read because it can cause obstacles to ripen.

and yes, the truth is, it's nothing more than the tibetan government's problem, and HHDL has to manifest this way to subdue the ministers in that place, no matter what people vouch for or against the protector say. Perhaps in their past lives they were tibetans and now they still think they're tibetans.

Anyway, just stay out of it by not taking sides. Let them be.

[Plinio Tsai]

So, when we say "stay out of politics" is more relating to Dharma than outter politics on the common world, right? Sometimes we think we are not involving ourselves into politics but we are... for example, if we think that this position accordly to this teacher is right and that position is wrong accordly to that other teacher, what we are doing is not thought discriminations, what we are doing actually is politics... we are missing the point that valid teachers have to take care of people and always want to benefit them... it looks like a simple way of thinking about things, but it is the most safe position to not be jumping over wrong conclusions, right?

[Joey]

So, when we say "stay out of politics" is more relating to Dharma than outter politics on the common world, right? Sometimes we think we are not involving ourselves into politics but we are... for example, if we think that this position accordly to this teacher is right and that position is wrong accordly to that other teacher, what we are doing is not thought discriminations, what we are doing actually is politics... we are missing the point that valid teachers have to take care of people and always want to benefit them... it looks like a simple way of thinking about things, but it is the most safe position to not be jumping over wrong conclusions, right?

politics here is to take sides. An exceptional teacher will tell you not to get involved with the entire thing. people who do not know any better will force you to take sides and have the "you're either with us or against us" mentality. Then, when that happens the entire sangha of practitioners gets reduced to a bunch of high school cheerleaders with one group supporting some other cheerleader and another group supporting another and they have catfights and such.

bottom line is when HHDL asks you to avoid it, avoid it. dont put words into his mouth and go on a crusade against those who practice it.

[Plinio Tsai]

Agreed!

[sarit]

Politic's is based on Machiavelli's Prince which is incompatible with the 8 verses of thought transformation.

[Plinio Tsai]

I tried to understand with more profoundity what you have wrote about Prince Machiaveli and did not get it very well. Please, forgive my lack of undestanding and I would like to ask you which point of Machievali you are pointing to and which part of Thought Transformation you are refering to... Sorry again, it is just that Machiavel wrote a lot and I would like to know with precision which point you are point to so I may also learn something with your comparison with this two major philosophers, one of western politics from old Europe and eastern mind training of Tibet... and also thanks for this new possibility of thoughts...

[sarit]

I am sorry, I was abstruse. The prince was written by an exiled political player to regain favour ( in order to return to court ) by presenting the current ruler with a prototype handbook of management on how to acquire, maintain and expand a power base. It''s observations and advice were shrewed but ruthless in the use of individuals and disposing them as well as the dangers of wishing love instead of the rule of fear with details on how to marginalize thr individual and the masses. In short it is a means to a samsaric end. The 8 verses of thought transformation in many ways decry our very need to gain temporal power as it is an illusion. For example as described to consider one as the lowest is the antidote to pride, guarding one's mind against a impure thoughts,  as contrasted with Machiaveli's aphorism that fortune favours the impetous and his quotation of Aenid's Virgil. To give victory and accept the loss is contrasted with his analysis of the defence differential between the French aristocracy and the Moslem oligarchy in terms of victory and the fact that the latter whilst more difficult to conquer would be easier to control as demonstrated by Alexander and Darius ( as a parallel ) which is truly different from Lojong logic of wishing to secretly take the suffering of all or even the fact that the enemy is one's Great Guru. Machiavelli lacks even Sun Tzu's warning to take warefare as the last and most undesirable paths both sides will suffer  and is more remniscent of Clausewitz. It can be applied in a Micro as well as a Macro level but as one who  now  aspires to be a Bodhisattva I am ashamed to have read these works as they are examples of misguided human intelligence and the eight verses have changed and enriched me far more. It is after all a methodology to gain victory over one self and I have so much to learn. I wished that I had known the Dharma earlier as it would have made me a better person in so many ways. Looking back and even now, there is so much that I see in myself which I am ashamed of and wonder why it took me so long to find the Dharma. Having found it, I do not want to lose it and I am certain that there are many who are as ignorant as me. I hope you understand where I am coming from. Obviously everyone in this Forum is more highly evolve than I am ( such as you ) and I am in awe of them as much as I am ashamed of my own lack of wisdom, compassion and insight. I have learned so much from all the wonderful postings here.