Hi,
I will send you some text.Read it, maybe it will help you to get some more clearity concerning this topic.
I will also write you sth to the topic: student-teacher and sexual relationship:
what if your guru try to touch you, e.g. a male guru trying to touch a female diciple's breasts or other body parts? is that a 'test'? Should we have absolutly no doubts and trust your guru no matter what?
IF A LAMA IS MONC
If a lama is monc, you should know he is not allowed to have sexual relationships,any sexual activities never ever! This is breaking his vows, and a lama who is breaking his vows, or does not take vows seriously by damaging them ( touching breast of women)is most likely not a qualified lama!
There is just one exceptation where a monc can have sexual intercourse: if he is at least at the first Bhumi and you are at least at the first bhumi as well, you have the qualifactions for such practice. In other words you have the realisation also to eat shit with delight, you can perform miracles like going through a wall, you do not just understand emptiness but you have also realization of it, you are in nirvana.
If a teacher approaches you, wanting to have you as his tantric consort, he should be able to perform the signs of realization, his teacher should give his OK, and same for you....otherwise this is the direct ticket to vajrahell for both of you.So the karmamudra practice is for almost enlightened people, and it is secretly done and both need to be at least on the 1st bhumi and to be trained /qualified for it.
Now coming back to touching breasts:
The question here is: Is touching your breast and thus confusing you, for your ultimate benefit and that of others....?Was there no other better method, alternative to apply than that? Did you got a spiritual relaization while he did so?If not what was the benefit?Did you got into the dharma because he touched your breast ( well then it would be a benefit)
He has to be really a mad holly saint, like Drukpa K?nley in order that such action would be right....problem is just that such saitns are very rare, and unfortuanetly fakes are more common pretending I am holly, all my actions are the outcome of my pure motivation....
A sign of a real saint is that when people are starting to loose their faith into them because of their wired actions, they prove their realisation to the people, by doing miracles and so forth!If the lama want to touch your breast, then ask him if he would first eat shit before your eyes and put his handprint into stone!
IF A LAMA IS NOT MONC AND YOUR TEACHER
If the one who approaches you, is your lama and not celibate....well think well before you jump into it.It could be a very unequal relationship.Do not expect that he will have much time for you, and it can happen after he had you, he will suddenly say, now we have to part as everything is impermanet ( great misuse!).This is just one example of many I`ve heared.
Then if sth like this happens to you, what will happento you? You may know intellectually that the fault of a person has nothing to do with a persons faults, that not all lamas are enlightened.....BUT emotionally you will most likely mix it up with dharma, your practice, trust and devotion to dharma will degenerate....
Is is worth?
Chime Rinpoche says, concerning this topic it is the same like between patient and psychotherapist, it is not good when they have a sexual relationship!
IF THE LAMA IS NOT MONC AND NOT YOUR TEACHER
And even the Lama is not your Lama, you still could get problems, as you still mix him, -the way he is- with dharma, as he has a title.Doesn`t matter if his actions are pure or not, still you will have your interpretations of his behave....
And if he is tibetan, well tibetan culture is different than that of ours, so the way he treats women, may not the way you`ve expected.....and as he is a lama, don`t expect he will have much time for you. Nr. 1 is in his life, to fulfill his duty, that is to teach the dharma!!!!!!!!!! It is not having the wife, not the girlfriend, because as a bodhisattva you always do that which brings the most benefit for all people, and you would sacrifice the benefit of one person for 100 and more person.
Do not forget that psychologically you will put all your unfulfilled expectations onto him , you will enter emotionally in your own shemata from the childhood....if he is a genuine lama, he will also go against your ego, as he vowd to liberate all sentient beings...that could hurt you, and if he is not genuine you will also get hurt....and how do you want to distinguish if he is genuine or not?
Ok, you could also get a normal unenlightend lama who is very nice to you,but I guess this is very rare.Anyway, if he was raiesed up within a monastery you have to count with that, he does not know much about women, how we function...could be that out of great compassion he wants to have a western women in order to learn about realtionships for to help his students better...but those cultural differences and not knowing much about women....well could be difficult for you to cope with it.
You have to be very strong emotionally to deal with such a person in a relationship!
If you can take that, than fine go for it! Fine! But examine him well before you enter with him a realtionship, put him onto a test what kind of men he is, like with any other men!
I will give you an advice concerning this:It was given by Ato Rinpoche to me:
"If any Lama or Tulku approaches you, never treat them differently from other western men."
WHEN YOU HAVE A STORY OF EMOTIONAL OR/AND SEXUAL ABUSE WITHIN YOUR OWN BIOGRAPHY
And if you are a person who got already abused by normal western samsaric men, then do not expect that a lama will be different, because what often happens is, that even among pure lamas you will attract the spoiled lamas, who as well will misuse you, as your karma is calling for that, but then the emotional consequences will be even more severe, as you mix it up with dharma what happened to you and you are loosing your devotion....emotional hell, I tell you, it is!
If you project onto lamas the love you`ve never got....well this is dangerous....better go to a psychotherapist who can help you to get out of your being misused-shemata.This is more save. Then afterwards you still can look for a not-celibate Lama....but then question is if you still want one?
Ask your self, why do you want to be with a lama? Would you want him, if he would be normal guy?
Do you want a Bodhisattva as a boyfriend? They can come in many forms, as your best friend, your neighbour...think of it. Pure beings do not always come in the form of a lama teaching on the throne.
Sorry for my english, do not look here for mistakes, english is not my motherlanguage.
Here a text from H.H. the Dalai Lama:
The student teacher relationship brings both teacher and student in a very close, intimate relationship similar to a therapist and patinet relationship
There is the great risk of misusing the power, and it often happens that the helperhas abused his or her position or power.
In western psychotherapeutic training, one is taught how to anticipate these situations and deal with them in order not to fall into great danger and there are major professions that most therapist belong to which are regulated by stare licensing or certification boards that observe professional conduct.
Substantiated, ethical misconduct can lead to the therapist losing their license to practice their profession.
QUSTION:Is there anything equivalent to this oversight function in Buddhism?
How is that handeled with Buddhist teachers?
How is it handled in their training?
If it comes to public attention that some teacher is having difficulties in this area, how is that then handled in the sangha?
ANSWER:( H.H.Dalai Lama )
Part of the blame lies with the students, because they pamper the spiritual teachers; they spoil them.
In the Buddhist tradition, someone becomes a spiritual teacher in relation to a disciple.
There isn`t any pariticular license or piece of paper or degree that you give someone qualifying that person as a spiritual teacher.
You are a Lama because you have students.
In cultivating a relationship with a spiritual teacher it is important not to be too quick to consider that person to be your spiritual teacher, because it is a very powerful relationship.
For however long it may take- 2 years, 5 years, 10 years or longer ?you simply regard this other person as a spiritual friend, and, in the meantime, you observe closely that person`s behavior, attitudes, and ways of teaching, until you are very confident of his or her integrity.
Then there is no need for any license.
But it is very important, from the beginning on, to have a very firm, sound approach.
There isn`t any aspect of the training towards becoming a lama that is specifically designed to help you avoid abusing your own students, if you ever have students.
But the very nature of Buddhist practice is to cultivate compassion, a sense of altruism towards others, and if this is pure, then the teacher will not abuse his influence.
QUESTION:That`s a very big IF, if one is pure enough.
I think people enter into these relationships on the assumption that the teacher has some degree of enlightenment; and then, when the abuse takes place or similar mistakes are made, the dissillusionment is quite strong.
ANSWER:( by H.H. Dalai Lama )
It is normally recommend to buddhist practitioners not to see every action of their spiritual teacher as divine and noble.
In all of the Buddhist teachings there are specific, very demanding qualities that are required of a spiritual mentor.
If one has a teacher who is engaging in unsuitable or wrong behaviour, it is approptiate for the students to criticize that behavior.
It says very explicitly in the sutras, in the Buddha`s own teachings, that in those aspects where the teacher`s behavior is wholesome, you should follow in that teacher`s footsteps, but where it is unwholesome, you should not.
So when it is incompatible with the wholesome, when it is incompatible with the Buddhist teachings, then you don`t follow in the guru`s footsteps.
You don`t simply say:
?It is good behavior because it is the guru`s?br />this is never done.
It states explicitly in the sutras that if the guru`s behavior is improper, you should identify that you should recognize the unwholesome as being unwholesome, so one might infer that it is worthwhile to criticize it.
In one text of The Highest Yoga Tantra, it expicitly mentions that any advise that your teacher gives you that is unsuitable to your Buddhist way of life, your practice, should not be followed.
QUETION:But everything you`ve said puts the responsibilty on the student, not one the one who is presumambly more enlightened
ANSWER:( H.H. Dalai Lama )
The guru, the spiritual teacher, is responsible for his or her own improper behavior.
It is the studen`s responsibility not to be drawn into it.
The blame is on both.
Partly it is because the student is too obedient and devoted to the spiritual master, a kind of blind acceptance of that person`s guidance.
That always spoils the person.
But of course part of the blame lies on the spiritual master, because he lacks the integrity that is necessary to be immune to that kind of vulnerability.
In the relationship of students and teachers where the teacher is abusing the student, dominating the student in an improper way because of the teacher`s greater training, presumably greater wisdom, greater position of power, if this happens isn`t it really the teacher who is gulity, rather than saying it`s the student`s fault because they were faithful too quickly?
Do you feel that the responsibility really lies chiefly with the student?
No, in that case, the responsibility does lie chiefly with the teacher.
When the person is supposed to be offering Dharma, offering spiritual teaching, ahe himself indulges in an action that he has been preaching to others to avoid, then it`s disgraceful.
One can say that person has betrayed the task.
QUESTION:Some teachings seem to indicate that if you can`t be abused and still stay compassionate, you`ll never be a buddha.
There are stories of a monc walking down a road and robbers come upon him and saw off his arm, and, as he reaches the first bhumi, he sends mercy and compassion to his abusers.
Then they saw off one of his legs and he reaches the secound bhumi and sends loving kindness to them, and they take off his other arm, as his realization deepens, his heart wide open, his mind perfectly cleare.
These kind of texts often leave one with a feeling of inadequacy and profound discouragement.
These can very easily be misinterpreted to mean: ?If I cannot allow myself to be abused, I am not a good buddhist.?br />
ANSWER:H.H. Dalai Lama
If this means that a spiritual teacher teaches you in a way that shows his cunningness and shrewdness because he is preparing a way to abuse you.......then I think you should keep away from such teachers.
FALLING IN LOVE
1. QUESTIONWhat happens, when the student falls in love with the teacher?
- ANSWER: ( Shenphen Rinpoche)
It is quite often in fact. Nothing really bad as long as the student understand the "platonicity" of such relation, and seeks advise to be able to transform the desires into a spiritual Path...
2. QUESTION:What happens, when the teacher falls in love with the student?
- ANSWER (Shenphen Rinpoche)
I would wonder about the qualities of such "teacher"!
3. QUESTION:What happens when both fall in love?
- ANSWER (Shenphen Rinpoche)
I'm not sure we can anymore talk about teacher or disciple!
4. QUESTION:How to trasform these energies?
- ANSWER (Shenphen Rinpoche)
All energies can be transformed, with the right Methods, under the right guidance...
Best wishes
Dechen
