Wealth Vases

[AnattaAnica]

I am new to this site and have never been to Kechara house. Hope to one day. I have been reading some of Rinpoche's teachings at the web site. I find them very instructive, inspiring, encouraging and often, very witty! Just yesterday I read his article on "Wealth Vases" and I need to say here that I am quite disturbed by the whole concept.

Isn't this bordering on superstition and a cultivation of greed? Chinese seems to be obsessed with wealth and money and "luck" and this concept appears to pander to this obsession. Is Rinpoche saying that if we purchase a wealth vase, we are assured of money rolling in by the buckets? If I understand the doctrine of karma correctly, how wealthy we are going to be in this life will be determined in some part by our past lives and in some part by our diligence and efforts in this life.

He did say however that our motive must be pure. But, really, how many of us have that? How many of us have even an ounce of mastery over any of the 3 poisons of the mind? The ego/self is deceitful and I am at loss to see how this wealth vase concept goes in any way to help dismantle our inherent tendency to be greedy, envious and deluded? Perhaps I understood this concept wrongly. If anyone can clarify this, I would be most grateful.

[sampa]

AnnattaAnica
                    You are gifted with a straight forward mind that can face the truth and naturally be disturbed by thing or concepts that you cannot understand and does not PRETEND to.You also have deep and profound wisdom to identify the subtle ego as the root cause[perhaps your pen name say it all]It is our good karma to be lead to this forum,which unlike others are more interested in popularity than TRUTH.Non-self is the foundation stone of buddhism .unlike other mainstream religions which recouncile the EGO only at the final stage by dissolving into oneness.TAWHID in Islam,Me and my father AM ONE,spoken by Lord jesus.All is BRAHMAN in hinduism.The pot is broken as spoken by Lord guru nanak.The one truth is beyond concept and it is best not to speculate,but follow faithfully the pointers to truth recorded in all holy scriptures

[AnattaAnica]

Thanks Sampa for your comments. I don't have deep and profound wisdom. I am as deluded as anyone out there. Grasping, craving and attaching. It is hard taming the monkey mind and it seems an impossiblity to know what non-self is. I know yet I don't know. I find meditation despairing. I am attracted to rituals and devotions because I think they lend some structure to our beliefs yet I am deeply sceptical of them because I am afraid I will mistake the pointing finger from the moon. "Truth is a pathless land" (Krishnamurti). But how many of us can walk on a pathless land? 

[sampa]

In buddhism,one start by taking refuge in the three jewels,the Buddha,Dharma and Shanga.The buddha is the TRUTH[moon],the dharma is the teaching of the truth[finger pointing to the moon].The shanga are those that keep alive the teaching[turning the dharma wheel]You have already identified the problem as your monkey mind.To tame,the mind many resort to suppressing it,which is difficult painful and probably take several life-times.The other way is to understand the working of the satanic mind with wisdom[prajna],exposing the FALSE existence of the EGO.Realising Annatta is the wisdom approach,rather than chaining the ego with percepts[only possible when the concept of doer-ego is maintained].Remember the TRUTH is UNCONDITIONED[Beyond cause and effect and not within the grasp of karma],hence it is pathless or gateless gate as refered in the ZEN tradition.Lord Jesus say'Be still and know I am god[when the monkey mind is stilled,one realised the true nature[refer to as god in other religions]

[Joey]

Thanks Sampa for your comments. I don't have deep and profound wisdom. I am as deluded as anyone out there. Grasping, craving and attaching. It is hard taming the monkey mind and it seems an impossiblity to know what non-self is. I know yet I don't know. I find meditation despairing. I am attracted to rituals and devotions because I think they lend some structure to our beliefs yet I am deeply sceptical of them because I am afraid I will mistake the pointing finger from the moon. "Truth is a pathless land" (Krishnamurti). But how many of us can walk on a pathless land? 

here's a pointer: many things seem to be based on beliefs on the surface, but if you dig deeper, take more time to understand and you can see how exactly it works. All you need to do is a little curiousity.

[sampa]

Traditions are acceptable as long as it points to the ONE TRUTH.

[Scott Hutton]

Abundance.  Greed.  One can be greedy for the cessation of suffering.  One can be greedy for the happiness of all.  That is wealth, the sort that doesn't disappear if the Dow Jones average crashes or some shit lobs a bomb somewhere.

The wealth vases, as I grok them, have little to do with Having.  They have, however, much to do with Sharing.  Cosmic sharing.

For years a statue of the "Wealth Yidam" has lived on my shrine, and has taught me the above, along with the great lesson:  greed itself can be transmuted into compassion.

I lust for your happiness.  I lust for the unchanging happiness of everyone here.  I am greedy with this lust.  And hope to become more so.

Scott Hutton

[sampa]

Sharing,while a desirable concept is still a concept, ASSUMING the existence of egos[many receiving the merits offered by one]In the great perfection,there is not only the one,how can there be many[which are but multiple of one]Truth is Zero,a constant unchange by function of adding itself or subtracting itself[ie it remain the same whether multiplied or divided by any numbers]

[Scott Hutton]

Zero is constant because no matter what it is multiplied or divided by it remains unchanged?  The same may be said regarding Infinity.

Form is emptiness; emptiness is form - where have we heard that?

You don't get one without the other.

[sampa]

If one view Zero as a set[as in set theory]That is imagine a volumn with nothing inside,Multiple this by infinity and the tiny volumn become infinite size,the content is still zero[the vast emptiness of the dharmakarya body]Hence the big appear in the small.This reasoning assume the concept of space which with the further dimension of time for event to unfold is the illusionary genesis of sansara.The chinese refer to this time-space concept as the world[shi cheh]The heart sutra and daimond sutra deals with this perplexing situation.Compassion arises naturally with wisdom as the light and warmth in the flame.Dwelling in duality is still within thinking mind using compassion as a concept in cultivation[a path or a gate]Truth is love and love is truth.Truth is the substance and love its function[inseperable].If truth can be explained,than it is just a matter of reading and everyone will be enlighten[as many can study and become doctors and engineer]Truth is beyond thinking and the mind is the wrong instrument and debating based on opinions[mostly acquired from others]will trap us in a merry-go round.When two minds are silent they become the same[infact it is the only one].Enough said,no debate[only elucidation]

[Scott Hutton]

I think you would enjoy reading  THE INTELLIGENT UNIVERSE, by James Gardener and Ray Kurzweil.   Dharma is blossoming amongst the physicists these days, though very few people appreciate it.

[sampa]

'The Tao Of Physic' which have been in print over a decade is a book close to writings in the holy scriptures.In mordern physic[Quantum mechanic] one is confronted with the concept of non objective reality[not this ,not that in hinduism].We can point and study only all that is false.In truth you can only BE.Lord Jesus say,be still and know I AM GOD.Duality dissolved in TRUTH,when he declared 'Me and my Father Am One'Wisdom or prajna in buddhism should not be confused with worldly wisdom[which is knowledge of things and phenomenum]In prjna All knowledge[worldly wisdom] are false.[read the daimond sutra]

[Scott Hutton]

Run spell checks.  Clean up your thoughts.

That would be a great offering indeed.

And pretend not that you know; those who know, don't.

Scott

[Scott Hutton]

Is there a difference between "sponsoring" a wealth vase and acquiring one?

A vase is on its way to me as I type and, I must say, I am excited.  Its case (never used for anything else) and its shrine space have been reserved and, in some sense, I feel that it's already here.  All I have to keep in mind is not to open the package when it first arrives at my office in Manhattan; I must wait until I get home to Westchester, where I can put it in its case without touching it.

"Sponsoring," though - that's a new idea.  Please say a bit more.

And yes, without giving, one may as well abandon the whole gig.

Scott

[AnattaAnica]

Dear Loafer and Scott

Thanks a lot for your replies. I appreciate them very much. However I am still disturbed by the whole concept of wealth vases. It is still superstition to me. If there is a need whether a monastery, an old folks home, Kechara House, I would make a donation, whether monetariy or in kind. I don't see how wealth vases engenders a giving heart in any way. Buying a Buddah statute I can understand, a religiious picture etc. But a wealth vase? If you say that it is a piece of art and would I be kind enough to buy one so that the proceeds could go to the monastery, I can understand. But to expect magical powers from it, I might as well believe in magical stones or trees or shrubs.

Scott, I know what you mean by lusting or greed-ing after happiness. But that's still craving and won;t you be setting up for yourself future suffering? The wanting, the grasping? How does a wealth vase help to enable us to have insight into dukkha, annica and annatta? Hpw?