Help needed...How to help?

[lola152]

Dear Dharma friends, maybe some of you with a bit more experience and wisdom then me could say something smart.
To make the story short...My sister is about to have an abortion. I fell so helpless and devastated. I tried to talk her out of it , but the fear of having a child is just too big.
I am worrying so much about the effects this may have on this and her future lifes.
Can one just simply bring the bare facts to a person? Am I allowed to tell her what I think? I do not want to scare her cause it seams she has already decided.
And can I be sure this action will bring more harm to her and others then having the child?
Should one  try stop the loved ones before they are about to hurt themselves and others?
I am really lost and feel like I am not helping at all. Do any of you have anything  to say...I would be so grateful!
P.S. My sister is no Buddhist, and even though she doesnt reject the teaching, she doesnt do the practice

[Krusty]

Dear lola152,

if one was so stupid to get pregnant (exept one is forced; if so I apologize), one should be so inteligent to avoid future problems.
If I may suggest, why not get the baby and give it free for adoption.
She could make a lot of sentient beings happy, including herself.
That you care is very, very nice of you and it is absolutely ok trying to convince someone (without pressure or forcing them to often...ha,ha),  if you are afraid that they are going to hurt themselfs.
You are compassionate and I rejoice in your effort and send you a prayer tonight.
If you speak to her/anyone about Dharma, avoid themes that make your opposite feel unconfortable. That is how we got taught.
And in the end you never know what results your deeds will bring, unless you are a Buddha.
More important, allways, is your motivation. That is what counts in the first place.

Love Krusty

[lola152]

Thank you Krutsy!

I suppose she thinks the problems she has in the moment will be solved, as soon as she is out of the hospital. I feel like I m watching someone i really care for, just about to jump of a cliff...
She isn t aware that the problems will only start then..

Thank you again..

[lola152]

..i am sorry I misspelled your name!

[Crazywisdom]

Hello Lola,

What a sad story. To my mind there is no point in looking back and thinking "if this" or "if that", we need to start where we are, here, with an unwanted pregnancy.
I think the best you can do for your sister is to talk it through with her if possible, discuss all the choices, abortion, adoption, keeping the child and thier implications both now and in the future.
Let her make her own mind up and stand by her and her decision. She will have to live with it for the rest of her life. She may well end up feeling guilty about it in future and its not for us to add to that guilt by passing judgement on her choices in life. Be the best sister you can be to her.

Jon  

[goat]

 try to practice as much loving-kindness as possible...what will be, will be.
 Bless all involved.

[pummy369]

Crazy Wisdom - not so crazy, just alot of wisdom here. 

Any choice a woman makes concerning a pregnancy has repercussions for the rest of her life and only she can make the decision herself - however the support of others is invaluable at this probably terrifying time. 

Perhaps prayers and dedications for the uncertain, unborn new life is the most that one can do to help that being but I don't know what the Buddhist stance is on when life begins in the womb.  Someone else here I'm sure does.

[Joey]

try to talk her into having the child and then giving it up for adoption. Ask her what would she feel if her mom decided to abort her, hating her and seeing her as a burden.

If that fails, time for the abortion videos where they show babies in tiny bits and pieces.

[wmw111]

I was thinking along the same lines as Joey in a way. I was thinking of if there was a person who has gone through abortion talk to your sister, then perhaps she might get a perspective on the kind of trauma the woman that undergoes abortion goes through. Not sure if this is an easy thing to find.

Responsibility what a scary word , but how much and how long can we run?
We have done the deed , so now take care of your responsibility .
Eventually everything catches up and we have no where to hide .

Not sure if you could talk to her about cause and effect ( maybe not to use the word karma ) ,I wonder if you can share with her that , if we kill one day we will be killed, or manifest life threatening diseases. We musn't complain when the results of the things we perpetrated comes  back to us. Action & reaction . If she ok with that , then there is nothing much more to do except prayers ....

[lola152]

Wow...
I woke up this morning and was so happy to see all you people reply...I m so happy, i mean it, and feel warmth in my heart knowing some "strangers" out there care for the problems I have. Dharma shows me it s strainght again. Thank you for that!
And for the replies...You say a lot of smart things.. I will deffinately try with all the means possible.
Some of you say I should tell her about the consecvences, but on the other side, I shouldn t tell her anything that would make her feel uncomfortable. How to get around it?
And one more thing...One of my Tibethan Lamas spoke ones about the adoption practice which is very common in the West, but he was a bit perplexed about it. He couldn t undertsand why we do it. Why is that so?
Thank you friends!

[wmw111]

Maybe the question you should ask is what are you comfortable in telling her?

We do whatever in life with the best of intentions , and muster whatever wisdom in we making a decision. And its really up to us , to do or not to do. 

[derrek]

"Of course, abortion, from a Buddhist viewpoint, is an act of killing and is negative, generally speaking. But it depends on the circumstances. If the birth will create serious problems for the parent, these are cases where there can be an exception. I think abortion should be approved or disapproved according to each circumstance." - His Holiness the Dalai Lama

[lola152]

yes, that is just the point in this situation. She will have difficulties, but not concerning her health. It is more like legal probles, since she lives in Germany and doesn t have the permanent permission to stay. She also doesn t have a flat of her own or enough finance to take care of the child herself. Her boyfriend, who actually could give her all of that, doesn t want a child.
So, as you see, it is not so simple...
Poor thing would even have the child , but she is just too affraid. And what makes me angry in the whole thing is the ignorance of that guy, who thinks he can just simply get out of the whole think, keep his girlfriend and a happy life.
Uf!!!

[lola152]

Does anyone know what the karmic consecvences of having an abortion might be?

[dabeisyin]

A lot of guys answered your question in a very male way... except for pummy.  Hi girl.  LOL

Joey... I love you honey, but it's just not appropriate to show someone the videos of babies being cut up into tiny bits and pieces.  That's what uncompassionate people do. 

You should try to support her if she wants to carry the baby to full term and give it up.  Maybe you could open your home to her, help her financially, or use the courts to put pressure on the boyfriend to fulfill his responsibilities.  I am not german, but a man in the united states who does not pay child support can lose his drivers' license, all professional licenses and be put in jail. 

So there must be some laws like that in germany as well.

But don't show her videos like Joey said.  Making her feel guilty will only backfire on you.  She'll get mad and storm out and you will lose the opportunity to help her.

You could secretly make prayers to the Buddha that the conditions supporting the abortion route are removed.

A Dharma master told me once that she saw ghosts of aborted babies that came to a Dharma Assembly who were very angry, making the mother sick and all that.  I don't think she would lie to me, but killing does result in sickness or early death.