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stevet
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« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2009, 06:53:08 AM » |
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anyone who misleads you from your Guru for whatever reason is destroying the Dharma, contray to what they would like to believe. If you see people like these, avoid them or try to reason with them.
Agreed. Also, both guru and disciple must check one another before creating a guru-disciple relationship. On that basis, I really hope people getting into dharma are LOOKING at some NKT stuff, or the actions of some particular centers, guru devotion aside. It's not so simple as "different lineages," especially if a lineage says that HHDL, the guru of gurus, is possessed by Mara. On the other hand, I think it's awesome that they or anyone can speak freely here. |
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Mahachakra22
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« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2009, 03:27:35 PM » |
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As an NKT practitioner,I am grateful for this open forum.
As with all places and traditions..some people take it too far,but overall no tradition is inherently'bad' it depends on our mind and what we accept as wrong and right.
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Mahachakra22
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« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2009, 03:29:57 PM » |
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Also i want to make clear,that HHDL is not the 'guru of gurus' as you claim...he is a high Tulku within the Gelug tradition..and as that he is as equal to any other High Lama in reality.
There is no 'rank' in Buddhism..or at least there should not be..
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wmw111
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« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2009, 06:52:19 PM » |
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Mahackakra22,
I won't put it that way , as His eminence mentioned in his talks before if there was anyone who is deemed to be closest to Lama Tsongkhapa in terms of learning,ability and realizations it would be his Holiness the Dalai Lama.
Best wishes
Wai Meng
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'Fear is the absolute confusion between you and your projections'
'You are very preoccupied with getting what you want, so you will fail to see what is'
~ Chogyam Trungpa ~
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Mahachakra22
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« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2009, 09:16:42 PM » |
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Wai Meng,
Maybe since I come from the other side of the fence;I don't see that..but that's fine if Rinpoche says that since I do have Faith in Rinpoche's words.
I only even found Rinpoche when I made my requests to my Guru when I was without a center and a close teacher..
This whole issue is so beyond the scope of ordinary beings we can never debate it to a solid conclusion.
I also use Rinpoche's view of this from his talks about Protectors to support my faith in my Protector.
To me the "Guru to all Gurus" is Buddha Shakyamuni himself or Lama Tsongkhapa in my particular Lineage..but it's all
dependent upon each person.
I do wish I could look at HHDL in as much reverence as many do..but again i'm at the unique situation of being apart of a tradition I truly have faith in that is opposing the current Dalai Lama's actions..
How unfortunate,but alas it is my Karma.
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spiritnoname
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« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2009, 11:19:30 PM » |
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Zong Rinpoche's picture seems nice to me, he seems well composed, and from what I read he was really well accomplished and educated. So fortunate for anyone to meet him, and I'd like to be like him :p
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Joey
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« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2009, 12:09:01 AM » |
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Zong Rinpoche's picture seems nice to me, he seems well composed, and from what I read he was really well accomplished and educated. So fortunate for anyone to meet him, and I'd like to be like him :p
time to save up for your 1-way ticket to Ganden then  no use saying but not doing anything to work towards that lol |
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
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spiritnoname
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« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2009, 08:00:25 PM » |
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hmm,.. do they accept english only speaking monks at Ganden, or would I have to learn Tibetan?
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wmw111
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« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2009, 08:30:36 PM » |
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Hi Mahachakra
Karma is not fatalistic , unless of course if the karma is already manifesting then not even Buddha Shakyamuni can stop it .
We can make decisions to change the course of things, even when a student is trained by the lama , ultimately it is the Student who decides how much he or she wants to be trained.
Best Regards
Wai Meng
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'Fear is the absolute confusion between you and your projections'
'You are very preoccupied with getting what you want, so you will fail to see what is'
~ Chogyam Trungpa ~
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Mahachakra22
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« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2009, 09:05:47 PM » |
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(sorry...i screwed up my last post)
Dear Wai Meng,
What I mean by my Karma in this situation is that while i'm here where I am in this circumstance.
I have faith in my Gurus and I don't wish to be trained out of my current situation and follow the other side..
I may have misunderstood what you mean,if you wish to clarify,that might help.
You are correct,Karma is not at all Fatalistic;it changes moment by moment.
But I am also happy to stand up for my practice ,the only 'sad' circumstance is having to witness this happening.
But again,I'm not wishing to be on the other end,because then I will still be in the same situation I am in now and in reality,it wouldn't be much different.
This spring and Summer i'm to Manjushri Centre in England for many months and i feel very fortunate to be able to spend this time with my Guru..I don't find any of this controversy in my practice and will experience Pure Dharma if I allow myself to.
{deleted your previous post..g}
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« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 12:36:44 PM by Goat »
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Joey
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« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2009, 10:36:14 PM » |
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Dear Wai Meng,
What I mean by my Karma in this situation is that while i'm here where I am in this circumstance.
I have faith in my Gurus and I don't wish to be trained out of my current situation and follow the other side..
I may have misunderstood what you mean,if you wish to clarify,that might help.
Y
how about this: since you created the karma, you can also divert or do something in order to control the karma that you have created. Makes sense? |
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
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drmnaga78
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« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2009, 12:09:26 AM » |
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Hi I am a bit confused, sorry. Wasn't Rinpoche's root guru HH Song Rinpoche, one of the most increadable practitioners of our time and also a devoted DS practitioner. Do people here think he was wrong relying upon DS as a Buddha? Was Kyabje Trijang and Kyabje Pabongkhapa wrong? Are their followers wrong? Sorry if this has been answered before but haven't seen this discussed here. This is a good site if your interested: http://www.dorjeshugdenhistory.org/Thanks |
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stevet
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« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2009, 03:25:00 AM » |
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Hi I am a bit confused, sorry. Wasn't Rinpoche's root guru HH Song Rinpoche, one of the most increadable practitioners of our time and also a devoted DS practitioner. Do people here think he was wrong relying upon DS as a Buddha? Was Kyabje Trijang and Kyabje Pabongkhapa wrong? Are their followers wrong? Sorry if this has been answered before but haven't seen this discussed here. This is a good site if your interested: http://www.dorjeshugdenhistory.org/Thanks Dorje Shudgen is a dharma protector. Just like Gelek Rinpoche did, I'm sure HE Zong Rinpoche would rather listen to HH the Dalai Lama's words than create his own lineage away from the rest of Tibetan Buddhism. |
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drmnaga78
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« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2009, 09:23:13 AM » |
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Interesting but a bit strange! DS is a supramundane(enlightened/Buddha) Dharma protector. HH Song Rinpoche would be continuing the lineage passed to him by his root guru, not starting his own  . If he stopped practicing on the basis of the DL words that would be breaking his comitments to his most precious root guru Kyabje Trijang. My question was were these masters wrong. I'm sorry to raise this question but it's quite an important one for followers of the precious lineage of Song Rinpoche and Tsem Rinpoche. I see a few people here who seem to approach the subject quite cautiously not critisizing DS or our precious lineage gurus, lovely  . But some seem to hold the view that relying upon DS is bad, that he is not a suitable protector, and that he is not a Buddha. This would meen that all the Great masters who have relied upon DS with faith are in some way wrong. DS is in the same catagory as Setrap-chen, They have a very close relationship. It would be very sad if people started to demonize Setrap-chen and the practitioners who rely upon him  . |
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