Confusion about Tsem Tulku

[John]

Some of you are probably tired of this kind of topic but still, for my peace of mind, I must ask a couple of questions about him:

What is Tsem Tulku`s opinion about the shugden controversy ?
Does he supports the practice?

If none of you have any info about this I will try to contact him personally. I`m pretty sure that he`s not a supporter of this practice but just to be 100% sure I have to ask. So have you heard his opinion about this matter?

[Ninje]

Be 100% SURE that Rinpoche does NOT support this practice.

Joey will definitely confirm to you later but I don't want you to wait too long. There was already a question regarding this in earlier thread where Joey responded with a firm "NO".

 

[John]

thanks this is what I wanted to hear.
I tried to use the search engine to find a past topic about `shugden` but there were no answers.

[spiritnoname]

Considering the monastery HETTR comes from, and that he is still affiliated with it, I can't imagine him supporting the practice.  Otherwise he would have gone with the New Kadampa or whatever the school of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, right?

[dabeisyin]

Well since he has a lot of Guru Devotion and the guru said it's bad to do, I am pretty sure he doesn't do it.

My western mind wants to know WHY... what the whole drama is about.  Very inquisitive.  You know, have to be like, well "WHY NOT, just because YOU said soooooooo huh?"  It's just the American way.

I still kind of don't get the drama, so I decided to just try to stay away from the whole thing, you know, but it's amazing that people fight over it.  Just amazing.   I met a lot of people in the past ten years who do really weird practices... someone tried to tell me that S and M was spiritual to them, and I was like, uh okay.  But I didn't stop being friends with them just because they were kinky weirdos.  But when they offered to give me a collar I declined.  LOL. 

I think it's the same thing with this.I don't think it's right to kill people or throw rocks at people or have protests or in any way have a cow over it.  If you trust the Dalai Lama, and I do, then you just don't do it.  If I met the Dalai Lama I don't think i would ask him about that.  Maybe I would ask about how to practice compassion to dumbasses, that would be a more interesting conversation. The whole Shugden Drama is TIRED. 

I just tell myself whatever, I can just recite the Buddha Amitabha, in the Amitabha Sutra it says who ever recites the name of Amitabha, that person will become the ones that all Buddhas are protective of.

So I already have an army following me around.   I don't really need another soldier. I could use a maid though.

And then there is Setrap, Rinpoche teaches that Dharma protector, a very cute Amitabha that just shows you it's true what the sutra says.  If you think he is scary looking it means you have no virtue.  I think he's vewwy cuddly. So Rinpoche is from the monastery that practices Setrap, then he probably doesn't have time for the other one. 

Besides the best protection in Dharma practice is to keep your nose clean.  You know like this: no killing, so stealing, no booblie, no drugs, no lying.  It's not as exciting as ringing bells, but it really works.

Namo Amitofo.

[John]

well I don`t know much about this drama. Just recently I found out about this thing. 
From what I understand this spirit is a evil one. But there still are few practitioners who think of him as a dharma protector.

Today I noticed on another forum some opinions that TTR might also be such a practitioner. Since this is a potentially dangerous practice, I had to ask, no matter how `tired` the story is. Maybe I didn`t read the whole 26 pages carefully enough but unfortunately I didn`t came upon a decisive answer like `TTR said he is not a supporter of such practice`
I noticed only assumptions like:
`Since some of his lineage gurus are such practitioner he probably is to`
or : `Since he suports the Dalai Lama he probabbly isn`t a shugden supporter .`

Now if a close student of Rimpoche said we can be 100% sure, I have enough assurance. 

[dabeisyin]

I'm not a close student, I don't cook for him or nothin,  but i am 100 percent sure that Tsem Tulku Rinpoche would never harm any person or their spiritual practice.

[dabeisyin]

I am more than 100 per cent sure...

Because if he did wrong... he'd have to answer to his 14 gurus... and now me. 

And I have a reputation of being a real b.i.t.c.h.  LOL I'm a fat, ugly, celibate woman and I still make grown men cry.

What can I say... girl power.

But I see, i dunno why you have no life and have to come over here from e-drama and start crap, but honey child, you need some lovin or somethin? Let big mamma give you a huggles.

Get a life boy, if you don't trust the man then you don't.. it's only your loss honey, because I can tell you, he is flawless, you don't have to come up in here starting drama to entertain yourself.  There is always porn... you can watch that.

[John]

SPG, by close student I meant Ninje, Joey  etc.
If you read the second post you will see that Ninje already gave me the info/assurance I needed.

No huggles needed from big mama

I am more than 100 per cent sure...

Because if he did wrong... he'd have to answer to his 14 gurus... and now me. 

And I have a reputation of being a real b.i.t.c.h.  LOL I'm a fat, ugly, celibate woman and I still make grown men cry.

What can I say... girl power.

But I see, i dunno why you have no life and have to come over here from e-drama and start crap, but honey child, you need some lovin or somethin? Let big mamma give you a huggles.

Get a life boy, if you don't trust the man then you don't.. it's only your loss honey, because I can tell you, he is flawless, you don't have to come up in here starting drama to entertain yourself.  There is always porn... you can watch that.

I don`t know if you realize but whit posts like this you give me the opportunity to study my ego... so thanks

[spiritnoname]

From what I understand DS was a man that for some reason the 5th Dalai Lama had killed and it turns out that he was a strange being and after he was finally killed by choking on a cloth shoved down his throat they burned his body and a omen showed up and then later he without a visible body disturbed the Dalai Lama's table and messed up his dishes and somehow later he became a protector. Probably subdued by someone. Sorry I'm skipping details lol.

 Present day what I understand is that HHDL 14 had a dream that DS and Pehar, the Oracle, we're fighting and DS was of the position to give Tibet to China. So HHDL attempted to halt the practice. The break between Geshe Kelsang and HHDL is something else, from what I have gathered and spoken some about with someone who I think best not to name because he was involved in this at the time we spoke, the heart teacher of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso was the junior tutor of HHDL and Geshe Kelsang wanted more recognition for his teacher or something, so there is some tension there. It's been a while so I don't remember this gossip perfectly so I'll stick with what I'm pretty sure is correct here.

 Now I have spoken with some people who practice DS and they see DS as an enlightened Dharmapala, where as HHDL sees him as a unenlightened Dharmapala who not suitable for taking refuge in.

 Personally I try to keep a distance from unenlightened Dharmapalas, what if I requested something bad and they went with it? lol


 Anywho, a bunch of gossip, feel free to delete it, it's probably all wrong info anyways haha.

[dabeisyin]

All I know about Shugden Practioners is that they are low.  Because they made a video using Paris Hilton's name to promote hatred of the Dalai Lama.  That's like really low.  What does she have to do with their drama and their problems?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIT6HYUguFg

It's like so undercutting and mean.  She has nothing to do with them, and they are so mean.

I guess they think that they don't have to pay for their actions at all, karma is going to bite them in the butt.  I swear, I hope she sues them because that is just mean.  Plus they made her voice sound gross.

They are obviously evil to sink so low.

I know you all think i am nuts but I think Paris Hilton is probably a Dakini goddess or something, I love her.  I know Rinpoche said she was evil, but that is like the one thing I would debate with him on. 
So what if she likes to party and all that.  that doesn't make her evil.  Everyone has a Buddha inside.  Ok.  I won the debate.

I feel that the Dalai Lama can handle them, but it's not right to use an innocent person like that.  They make it look like she supports their crap, and it's totally not fair.

Burn baby burn. 

I know someone in their group that i met one time.  And I am going to go write some nasty emails to try to get this stopped.  Because it's really stupid and childish.  They have the right to dig their own graves, but they don't have the right to take down Paris, that's just wrong.

I hope she sues them, I really do.  I would if I were her.

I don't care if they play dress up as Buddhist monks or not, that's just wrong.

[John]

I`m not sure DS is just a bunch of gossip:

http://www.dalailama.com/page.132.htm

and if I delete the post sooner or later you will have another new member coming here asking the same questions.

[dabeisyin]

At the temple before lunch we used to chant a prayer that went something like may all beings take Dharma for nourishment.

If whatever they do nourishes them in some way, then happy.  If they like the taste of dung beetles we can't stop them.

It's all like hella drama, people need to get over it.  It's tired.  If eating dung beetles brings you to enlightenment I am all for it, but I dunno why they gotta pick on Paris.

Just keep your weirdo practices to yourself, the dung beetle eaters.

Gawd.  Sniff. 

This whole Shugden thing is like... a total ghost.  It just keeps coming up out of the grave.  It won't die.  LOL.

Just stay in the grave and eat the dung beetles, no body cares.

It's not like the Dalai Lama can stop people from eating poop, he just out of the kindness of his heart said it wasn't so tasty.

If they still wanna eat it then they just weird if you ask me. But who am I to judge?  I'm just Terri.

[Joey]

Rinpoche's take on this  drama is:

1) No. He does not practice it because he keeps his samaya with HHDL clean.

2) We should not get involved in this issue, because this issue is in reality a political issue that concerns only Tibetans.

"The Tibetans create suffering even in the only thing they have to offer the world: Buddhism. Leave the Tibetans to their own suffering. This has nothing to do with us non Tibetans." - H.E. Tsem Tulku Rinpoche, Gurus For Hire, Enlightenment for Sale

"Whatever the Dalai Lama says, we follow. The end." - H.E. Tsem Tulku Rinpoche, Gurus For Hire, Enlightenment for Sale

Enough proof?

As for my personal opinion, we'll never know what that protector really is, because we cannot check. In the history of Tibet there has been many cases of ministers spreading rumors and twisting stories to usurp a powerful Lama's estate. Not surprising if the whole thing was cooked up by some scheming minister.

[John]

yes more than enough proof, thank you all for clarifying my concern.
Take care