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wmw111
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« on: July 01, 2009, 01:47:09 AM » |
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In this modern era, I believe that for me to survive,
my sense of self preservation or self cherishing must be there.
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'Fear is the absolute confusion between you and your projections'
'You are very preoccupied with getting what you want, so you will fail to see what is'
~ Chogyam Trungpa ~
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spiritnoname
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« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2009, 01:55:21 AM » |
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No one survives.
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wmw111
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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2009, 09:55:10 PM » |
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Not in modern countries like Malaysia and US but in parts of Sub Saharan Africa , or the shanty towns in india survival is a daily affair .
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'Fear is the absolute confusion between you and your projections'
'You are very preoccupied with getting what you want, so you will fail to see what is'
~ Chogyam Trungpa ~
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spiritnoname
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2009, 01:54:46 AM » |
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I meant no one avoids death.
You can do all you want to prepare for the future. The best doctors, money, estates, friends, medicine and spiritual attainments, still no one who is born can avoid death. Since no one survives it's really a matter of quality of life, the quality of life for those who have realized the view of no self is far better than struggling to preserve yourself at the expense of what makes a quality life.
When you have the realization of no self you can just watch the collection that you call a life disperse as is natural and unavoidable, when I think about this a line from Hsing hsing ming comes up, "like flowers in the air, foolish to try to grasp them." That's so much better than trying to hold on to something you can't keep.
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wmw111
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2009, 02:42:30 AM » |
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yes yes everyone dies in the end. There's no doubt about that even the glorious Buddha manifested dying .
I think you're arguing off tangent, my point is assuming we can live for a while do we need self cherishing to do so.
In some parts of the world it is not merely quality of life , its survival.
Thats my challenge.
I have no realization of no self ! In fact I don't even know what it means.
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'Fear is the absolute confusion between you and your projections'
'You are very preoccupied with getting what you want, so you will fail to see what is'
~ Chogyam Trungpa ~
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spiritnoname
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2009, 01:14:57 PM » |
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oh
hmm,.. in dangerous places survival is a big issue. Who lives longer, a lone individual who cares only for themselves, or a family of people who protect and help each other?
People that care only for themselves eventually run into more people like that, and having no protection from others they take from each other. The result is a life of poverty and troubles, maybe early death.
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goat
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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2009, 05:57:41 AM » |
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In this modern era, I believe that for me to survive,
my sense of self preservation or self cherishing must be there.
very true, while younger i was very much into going fast...no thoughts of tomorrow or today..many times i "survived" highspeed motorcycle crashes where others would have died. self preservation or self cherishing has kept me off bikes for years |
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Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.
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waybackhome83
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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2009, 07:51:16 AM » |
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Hmm, this is a tough one. Without doubt, there has to be some element of self-preservation or self-cherishing, otherwise we wouldn't be able to do much: it's no bad thing to cherish and respect yourself, and to want to preserve that; it's when all that matters is you and what you can have and how you can get things, regardless of whether that comes from the exploitation or suffering of others, that it becomes problematic.
No matter where you live - India or the US or elsewhere - there are many people who struggle to survive. In the spiritual sense, yes, no-one survives this life, because it must end regardless of your circumstances, whether you are rich or poor.
However, living in the now, at this moment, we want to survive. No-one likes the idea of not surviving. In most cases, we need to be educated to some level, and then we need to find a job to get money to be able to live in our home and to pay the bills; for most people, this is unavoidable. Even in very poor countries, people still need to find ways of obtaining food and clothes and shelter.
The issue may be to what extent your sense of self-preservation or self-cherishing is. To a degree, these things help us to survive; without them, perhaps we wouldn't have the drive to get up every morning and do the things that help to keep us surviving. Having said that, too much of these feelings may cause us to want to survive and "keep ahead of the competition", even if that means people have to suffer in order for us to achieve our goals.
Kind regards,
Sandy
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GonzoEnder
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2009, 08:27:12 AM » |
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Self-Cherishing mind is a delusion. Other cherishing mind is the only way to survive. The ability for "survival" using solely Self-Cherishing mind is temporary like robbing someone. It is not created it is stolen. It is possible, but does not lead to greater odds to live in any place. A wider perspective on life AKA other-cherishing-mind is taking reality into account. Even in a desolate place odds will increase. Self-preservation is the same as self-cherishing-mind. I think what must be understood is that we are a part of the other-cherishing-mind, it is not outside of us or inside of us, it includes both perspectives.
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
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Guardian of the Gate
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2009, 08:35:50 AM » |
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Self-Cherishing mind is a delusion. Other cherishing mind is the only way to survive. The ability for "survival" using solely Self-Cherishing mind is temporary like robbing someone. It is not created it is stolen. It is possible, but does not lead to greater odds to live in any place. A wider perspective on life AKA other-cherishing-mind is taking reality into account. Even in a desolate place odds will increase. Self-preservation is the same as self-cherishing-mind. I think what must be understood is that we are a part of the other-cherishing-mind, it is not outside of us or inside of us, it includes both perspectives.
If I read your thesis correct; we must therefore exist in order to serve a greater purpose and actions of self preservation are undertaken in order to fulfill that greater purpose? |
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GonzoEnder
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2009, 11:26:47 AM » |
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Self-Cherishing mind is a delusion. Other cherishing mind is the only way to survive. The ability for "survival" using solely Self-Cherishing mind is temporary like robbing someone. It is not created it is stolen. It is possible, but does not lead to greater odds to live in any place. A wider perspective on life AKA other-cherishing-mind is taking reality into account. Even in a desolate place odds will increase. Self-preservation is the same as self-cherishing-mind. I think what must be understood is that we are a part of the other-cherishing-mind, it is not outside of us or inside of us, it includes both perspectives.
If I read your thesis correct; we must therefore exist in order to serve a greater purpose and actions of self preservation are undertaken in order to fulfill that greater purpose? Yes. Exactly. |
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
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GonzoEnder
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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2009, 11:35:10 AM » |
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Actually I think spiritnoname actually said what I'm saying, first... Only more eloquently  So eloquently in fact that I didn't understand what he meant on first read. heh. |
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
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