Correct course of action?

[gliang]

"Selective reading" ?   

Sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. In your post #9090, I don't even see you replying objectively to my post numbered #9088 which you intended to reply to. Instead, what did you do? Talk about 'bruised ego' and all. 

That aside, let me now reply to your last post numbered #9098, in case you say i 'selectively read' 

In the first place, why I carried on thus far this exchange of words with you, was to open up to you the possible ramifications of your actions(read #9088), about leading people away from the dharma and 'skilful means'. I didn't see you replying anything related to that at all and instead talked about my 'bruised ego'(talk about 'selective reading'  ). I mean, you yourself expressed your 'hope' that people would 'point out to you your errors', just like you said you wouldn't hesitate to do the same for others. You could say that's what I'm doing and it sort of unsettled you as well, just like it did to me(according to you).

Having a 'bruised ego' as you say, is fine with me. Nothing secretive and shameful. It's not the first time and neither is it gonna be the last, honestly. I can acknowledge and accept and live with that and work from here. Sure, people with 'bruised egos' may be scary to you, but who knows, what could be scarier to everyone else could be someone who is imposing, going around dealing blows at their supposed 'ego', especially to strangers, that's the best part. I don't need apologies thank you, I didn't come here looking for an apology. I came here for opinions, and I had some constructive ones(thanks to those people who shared). Oh well, whatever floats your boat.

the thing is, there is a choice to let people be in a state where they accept what they think is the Dharma, but in actual fact it is just their misconceptions or wake them up from their own conception of what Dharma is, so that they can improve and get on. The former will keep them happy and around for a long time, but they do not get any spiritual progress and of course you will gain fame and praise which is of the 8 worldly conditions, while the latter can be rude, painful and very condescending and risk the reputation, but it is only for the person's benefit solely in the long run, even if that person may hate you or run away but at least the person will one day think back and improve spiritually.

I will always choose the latter. 

it dosent matter if that person is a stranger or not really, people are people and they are easy to read once you understand how they think.

Which is precisely the point I'm getting at the whole time. That's only what YOU think.

Who are you to judge or know that your 'painful', 'harsh' way is the perfect method for all strangers, all the time? You trying to emulate 'crazy wisdom' by the late Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche or something(I don't know if he did it all the time on everybody though)? Again, who are you to judge or know about the future consequences of your actions that they'd work out all the time hmm? Which was why I talked about 'leading them away from the dharma', which runs contrary to the objective of your job as a bodhisattva? Maybe they run away from you and the dharma forever lol. If that happens, would that be 'skilful'?

[spiritnoname]

It's also possible that they'd respect the teachings more.  Hard to say. I personally like teachers that are straight to the point and tell me what I don't want to hear.

[Joey]

"Selective reading" ?   

Sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. In your post #9090, I don't even see you replying objectively to my post numbered #9088 which you intended to reply to. Instead, what did you do? Talk about 'bruised ego' and all. 

That aside, let me now reply to your last post numbered #9098, in case you say i 'selectively read' 

In the first place, why I carried on thus far this exchange of words with you, was to open up to you the possible ramifications of your actions(read #9088), about leading people away from the dharma and 'skilful means'. I didn't see you replying anything related to that at all and instead talked about my 'bruised ego'(talk about 'selective reading'  ). I mean, you yourself expressed your 'hope' that people would 'point out to you your errors', just like you said you wouldn't hesitate to do the same for others. You could say that's what I'm doing and it sort of unsettled you as well, just like it did to me(according to you).

Having a 'bruised ego' as you say, is fine with me. Nothing secretive and shameful. It's not the first time and neither is it gonna be the last, honestly. I can acknowledge and accept and live with that and work from here. Sure, people with 'bruised egos' may be scary to you, but who knows, what could be scarier to everyone else could be someone who is imposing, going around dealing blows at their supposed 'ego', especially to strangers, that's the best part. I don't need apologies thank you, I didn't come here looking for an apology. I came here for opinions, and I had some constructive ones(thanks to those people who shared). Oh well, whatever floats your boat.

the thing is, there is a choice to let people be in a state where they accept what they think is the Dharma, but in actual fact it is just their misconceptions or wake them up from their own conception of what Dharma is, so that they can improve and get on. The former will keep them happy and around for a long time, but they do not get any spiritual progress and of course you will gain fame and praise which is of the 8 worldly conditions, while the latter can be rude, painful and very condescending and risk the reputation, but it is only for the person's benefit solely in the long run, even if that person may hate you or run away but at least the person will one day think back and improve spiritually.

I will always choose the latter. 

it dosent matter if that person is a stranger or not really, people are people and they are easy to read once you understand how they think.

Which is precisely the point I'm getting at the whole time. That's only what YOU think.

Who are you to judge or know that your 'painful', 'harsh' way is the perfect method for all strangers, all the time? You trying to emulate 'crazy wisdom' by the late Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche or something(I don't know if he did it all the time on everybody though)? Again, who are you to judge or know about the future consequences of your actions that they'd work out all the time hmm? Which was why I talked about 'leading them away from the dharma', which runs contrary to the objective of your job as a bodhisattva? Maybe they run away from you and the dharma forever lol. If that happens, would that be 'skilful'?

birds of a feather flock together and it seems that you're still sore. I've been like that for quite sometime and alot of people are still around. And no i am not trying to emulate anyone. I've already made my point clear and you have again chose to ignore that part. I will not repeat myself anymore and since you dont read, I will start deleting any more posts on you harping on this incident because you keep repeating that dumb statement. consider this your first warning.

if you did what you did in e-sangha, you would have been suspended and your posts deleted to protect the ego of the moderators. But we're nice people but that dosent mean you can walk all over me just because you repeat your points like a parrot.

lets just put it this way: if they run away from harsh Dharma, they will abandon Dharma eventually because those people arent seeking the Dharma, they're seeking an escape from daily problems. If I dont scare them away some text or someone else will eventually.

What do you get by insisting that I scare people intrested in the Dharma away anyways? does it extend your e-ego? And if you took the time to actually read the other posts i write, i am not always this nasty, i'm only nasty when the situation demands it.

and oh, for insisting that i scare people away from the Dharma for the last 5-6 posts or so, you won the internet. happy?

[gliang]

I'm not really well-read in the buddha-dharma, but I've read that the Buddha taught 84,000 dharma-doors. The question is, why?

I'm not saying that being 'harsh' is wrong or should not be encouraged. It may well prove to be efficacious sometimes, to certain people, but not all the time to everyone. The point has always been about the 'skill-in-means'. 

When it's not as simple as correcting my view that if I say Buddha was born a female, you correct me saying that Buddha was in fact born a male. For all I care, you could be harsh with me and correct my erroneous view and that's ok, cos it's only something trivial. However, when it's something more hairy that you're trying to address, that is when you should think twice before shooting off harsh words. Is there the possibility of any disastrous implications? If yes, should you continue and if you choose to, how should you say it? Would your advice be beneficial to this person? Would he/she 'get it'? I'm no enlightened person, but maybe, just maybe, answering those questions first would help. Can you execute your means sufficiently successfully to a stranger you talk to, over an online forum, when you don't know his/her disposition, inclination? Would your means be appropriate? For all your kindness and compassion, I'm sure you don't wanna run the risk of messing up people's spiritual-growth.

And...
1) Nope, I have never got banned at e-sangha.
2) What's e-ego by the way? Doesn't exist.
3) I don't win the internet. I don't own it, neither does anyone else. Nothing to be happy about.

You've made your points, so have I. We can agree to disagree. Peace!

[Joey]

the thing is, there is a choice to let people be in a state where they accept what they think is the Dharma, but in actual fact it is just their misconceptions or wake them up from their own conception of what Dharma is, so that they can improve and get on. The former will keep them happy and around for a long time, but they do not get any spiritual progress and of course you will gain fame and praise which is of the 8 worldly conditions, while the latter can be rude, painful and very condescending and risk the reputation, but it is only for the person's benefit solely in the long run, even if that person may hate you or run away but at least the person will one day think back and improve spiritually.

I will always choose the latter. 

it dosent matter if that person is a stranger or not really, people are people and they are easy to read once you understand how they think.

this, answers your most recent reply.