Correct course of action?

[Joey]

also, i do learn to look at the subtle signs rather than the gross ones. this helps me guard my body, speech and mind better. Because of that it can also be applied on others and lets me read and look directly at their intentions. That way, i can easily  help people who want to learn...

can be painful sometimes when it is obvious that the person is lying...oh well I wonder how Rinpoche can get through that...

[spiritnoname]

 It's really nice that practitioners notice that sort of things, with my spiritual friend sometimes I will say stuff out of just awkwardness because I find it hard to say what I'm thinking, I know to some degree it is a lie, but both of us know what's really going on and that each other knows, just that some things are hard to say.

 Like you know sometimes people will ask you how you are doing, and you will say that you are alright even if something really bad is happening, you might not be able to bring yourself to say something's wrong but a lot of people understand what's really going on and that you don't want to talk about it much.

[Joey]

It's really nice that practitioners notice that sort of things, with my spiritual friend sometimes I will say stuff out of just awkwardness because I find it hard to say what I'm thinking, I know to some degree it is a lie, but both of us know what's really going on and that each other knows, just that some things are hard to say.

 Like you know sometimes people will ask you how you are doing, and you will say that you are alright even if something really bad is happening, you might not be able to bring yourself to say something's wrong but a lot of people understand what's really going on and that you don't want to talk about it much.

thats not a lie. that's being considerate for not trying to ruin people's day with your self pity

[gliang]

We all lead our varied lives and we may sometimes meet with  hypothetical scenarios frought with precariousness or some sort of uncertainty, and we are challenged to act on-the-spur. The basic question is : What is the best course of action to take?

If I am walking along the street and nearby, I see a blind guy crossing the road full of moving traffic. What do I do?

1) If I managed to save the blind guy's life as well as prevent an accident, buddhists might probably say to me "wow you're so compassionate. congrats!"

2) If I intervene out of my compassion to save the blind guy's life, and end up getting killed myself, buddhists might probably say "Oh dear, out of his compassion, he tried to do a good deed but got killed instead. He's got no wisdom!"
Or maybe, they might say "He has compassion for the blind guy but clearly no compassion for himself!"

3) If I decide not to do anything at all and the accident happens and the blind guy gets killed, I can also hide under an excuse and say "I practise compassion for others as well as myself! So how can I risk my life?!"

So what would be the correct course of action?

why would you wanna care bout what people think when you help someone? as long as that person benefits.......

shows that you helped that person so that you could gain fame...

Excuse me?

Like I said, it's only a hypothetical scenario. Don't be too quick to judge too soon that "I" in fact was the one playing out that 'kind-hearted character' in that scenario. That "I" was only fictionally imputed.

[gliang]

Joey, can we be a little tactful !

is being straightforward a crime? =( if everyone was tactful then whats the point of even studying the Dharma because reality is less tactful.

Reality isn't sweet all the time, we all know that. But seriously, who are you to be so bold as to adopt such a harsh tone in reply to my thread topic? You think your cup of 'e-dharma' suits everyone?   

[spiritnoname]

 It's possible Joey is pushing buttons intentionally, but whether or not he is this is a perfect opportunity to pin down the processes going through the mind for dissection and seeing what's worth while and what is just a hassle.

 I love it when some people offend me, especially if they're someone I am not willing to have hatred for, really allows me to get to the bottom of my dysfunctional views.

[Joey]

We all lead our varied lives and we may sometimes meet with  hypothetical scenarios frought with precariousness or some sort of uncertainty, and we are challenged to act on-the-spur. The basic question is : What is the best course of action to take?

If I am walking along the street and nearby, I see a blind guy crossing the road full of moving traffic. What do I do?

1) If I managed to save the blind guy's life as well as prevent an accident, buddhists might probably say to me "wow you're so compassionate. congrats!"

2) If I intervene out of my compassion to save the blind guy's life, and end up getting killed myself, buddhists might probably say "Oh dear, out of his compassion, he tried to do a good deed but got killed instead. He's got no wisdom!"
Or maybe, they might say "He has compassion for the blind guy but clearly no compassion for himself!"

3) If I decide not to do anything at all and the accident happens and the blind guy gets killed, I can also hide under an excuse and say "I practise compassion for others as well as myself! So how can I risk my life?!"

So what would be the correct course of action?

why would you wanna care bout what people think when you help someone? as long as that person benefits.......

shows that you helped that person so that you could gain fame...

Excuse me?

Like I said, it's only a hypothetical scenario. Don't be too quick to judge too soon that "I" in fact was the one playing out that 'kind-hearted character' in that scenario. That "I" was only fictionally imputed.

then in reality my "you" was referring to the fictional "I", in which any case should not offend you unless the fictional "I" is actually you. so which one is it now?

if you want people to butter up to you there are "dharma" forums that do just that but not this one. Better to be harsh than let people wallow in delusion. I may not be free of it and all but i wont hesitate to point out, and hope u guys will do the same too

[gliang]

We all lead our varied lives and we may sometimes meet with  hypothetical scenarios frought with precariousness or some sort of uncertainty, and we are challenged to act on-the-spur. The basic question is : What is the best course of action to take?

If I am walking along the street and nearby, I see a blind guy crossing the road full of moving traffic. What do I do?

1) If I managed to save the blind guy's life as well as prevent an accident, buddhists might probably say to me "wow you're so compassionate. congrats!"

2) If I intervene out of my compassion to save the blind guy's life, and end up getting killed myself, buddhists might probably say "Oh dear, out of his compassion, he tried to do a good deed but got killed instead. He's got no wisdom!"
Or maybe, they might say "He has compassion for the blind guy but clearly no compassion for himself!"

3) If I decide not to do anything at all and the accident happens and the blind guy gets killed, I can also hide under an excuse and say "I practise compassion for others as well as myself! So how can I risk my life?!"

So what would be the correct course of action?

why would you wanna care bout what people think when you help someone? as long as that person benefits.......

shows that you helped that person so that you could gain fame...

Excuse me?

Like I said, it's only a hypothetical scenario. Don't be too quick to judge too soon that "I" in fact was the one playing out that 'kind-hearted character' in that scenario. That "I" was only fictionally imputed.

then in reality my "you" was referring to the fictional "I", in which any case should not offend you unless the fictional "I" is actually you. so which one is it now?

if you want people to butter up to you there are "dharma" forums that do just that but not this one. Better to be harsh than let people wallow in delusion. I may not be free of it and all but i wont hesitate to point out, and hope u guys will do the same too

Yes, it was a fictional 'I' indeed and thanks for your concern, it didn't offend me. 

In case you can't really tell what my point is, or if you're too caught up in playing the game of semantics; it was to 'hint' to you to be more mindful and careful of your speech.

I understand you said "Better to be harsh than let people wallow in delusion." Well, that's only what you think, you see? It's also where I disagree. In the first place, you adopt this kinda harsh tone to people whom you don't even know and have never spoke to for the 1st time?  What if due to your dispensing of your 'straightforward/harsh' dose of 'advice' leads strangers AWAY from the dharma, what do you say then? Perhaps you might wanna re-look at the meaning of 'skilful means'.

there is this thing called skill : )

There you go, it'd perhaps do you well to take the advice of your Administrator friend before dishing out your 'straightforward/harsh' dose of 'advice' to people especially whom you don't even know. Have you been doing that all the time?  If you have, I'd fear for the possible consequences 

It's not about coming in here and wanting to hear sugar-coated stuff. It's a matter of your '1-size-fits-all' method of speech. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Maybe amongst yourself and your friends, but not to the entire world. Have a nice life.

[spiritnoname]

hmm that's a good point.

[Joey]

We all lead our varied lives and we may sometimes meet with  hypothetical scenarios frought with precariousness or some sort of uncertainty, and we are challenged to act on-the-spur. The basic question is : What is the best course of action to take?

If I am walking along the street and nearby, I see a blind guy crossing the road full of moving traffic. What do I do?

1) If I managed to save the blind guy's life as well as prevent an accident, buddhists might probably say to me "wow you're so compassionate. congrats!"

2) If I intervene out of my compassion to save the blind guy's life, and end up getting killed myself, buddhists might probably say "Oh dear, out of his compassion, he tried to do a good deed but got killed instead. He's got no wisdom!"
Or maybe, they might say "He has compassion for the blind guy but clearly no compassion for himself!"

3) If I decide not to do anything at all and the accident happens and the blind guy gets killed, I can also hide under an excuse and say "I practise compassion for others as well as myself! So how can I risk my life?!"

So what would be the correct course of action?

why would you wanna care bout what people think when you help someone? as long as that person benefits.......

shows that you helped that person so that you could gain fame...

Excuse me?

Like I said, it's only a hypothetical scenario. Don't be too quick to judge too soon that "I" in fact was the one playing out that 'kind-hearted character' in that scenario. That "I" was only fictionally imputed.

then in reality my "you" was referring to the fictional "I", in which any case should not offend you unless the fictional "I" is actually you. so which one is it now?

if you want people to butter up to you there are "dharma" forums that do just that but not this one. Better to be harsh than let people wallow in delusion. I may not be free of it and all but i wont hesitate to point out, and hope u guys will do the same too

Yes, it was a fictional 'I' indeed and thanks for your concern, it didn't offend me.  

In case you can't really tell what my point is, or if you're too caught up in playing the game of semantics; it was to 'hint' to you to be more mindful and careful of your speech.

I understand you said "Better to be harsh than let people wallow in delusion." Well, that's only what you think, you see? It's also where I disagree. In the first place, you adopt this kinda harsh tone to people whom you don't even know and have never spoke to for the 1st time?   What if due to your dispensing of your 'straightforward/harsh' dose of 'advice' leads strangers AWAY from the dharma, what do you say then? Perhaps you might wanna re-look at the meaning of 'skilful means'.

there is this thing called skill : )

There you go, it'd perhaps do you well to take the advice of your Administrator friend before dishing out your 'straightforward/harsh' dose of 'advice' to people especially whom you don't even know. Have you been doing that all the time?   If you have, I'd fear for the possible consequences  

It's not about coming in here and wanting to hear sugar-coated stuff. It's a matter of your '1-size-fits-all' method of speech. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Maybe amongst yourself and your friends, but not to the entire world. Have a nice life.

why are you so worked up then?

but then it all depends on perspective. And why are you getting so worked up over an imaginary "I"? I know you were saying it in a metaphorical way but the way you replied in your few previous posts read like that of someone with a bruised ego. And in being hostile to me and having a bad reaction, what are you different from me then?

if people get turned away from the Dharma because someone told them off that what they are doing is wrong, then they're not ready for Dharma i say. If they sincerely want to learn, it is a small thing to overlook at. Even if you go to college and the lecturer teases you or tells you off, you dont walk away from the class if the course is really what you are interested in. Even at work when a collegue tells you off for a mistake you dont resign the  next day, do you?

so do you turn your back on Dharma when someone tells you off bluntly? If you do, it just shows that you're not really in for the Dharma. But i will be more polite with certain people around. People with bruised egos can be nasty and scary.

[gliang]

why are you so worked up then?

Worked up? No no, Dr. Harsh Joey, it's 'cos your '1-method-cure-all' medicinal capsule doesn't seem to work on me! So how? Is it the problem of the patient or the capsule, if the illness is still around? Or perhaps it's the wrong prescription! Oh no! 

but then it all depends on perspective. And why are you getting so worked up over an imaginary "I"? I know you were saying it in a metaphorical way but the way you replied in your few previous posts read like that of someone with a bruised ego. And in being hostile to me and having a bad reaction, what are you different from me then?

'bruised ego'  ?

If a patient decides to leave Dr. Harsh Joey(due to the inefficacy of his medicine) for another doctor, you'd blame the patient? 

"Different from you?" Time for a recap. I was the 1 who came in here looking for opinions to my thread topic, not the 1 who gave a dose of 'harsh' advice. I'm not as learned in the dharma and neither am I holier than thou! 

if people get turned away from the Dharma because someone told them off that what they are doing is wrong, then they're not ready for Dharma i say.

Really? Who are you to judge strangers and their inclinations? Do you know what their next course of action, is? Perhaps they might find another doctor? Who knows, they might get cured? Are you the only doctor around prescribing dharma?  

If they sincerely want to learn, it is a small thing to overlook at. Even if you go to college and the lecturer teases you or tells you off, you dont walk away from the class if the course is really what you are interested in. Even at work when a collegue tells you off for a mistake you dont resign the  next day, do you?

Hmm, you do like to use similes to put across your point huh. Okay. I'll answer your questions alright? For the 1st qn, nope I won't, cos I've already paid school fees to learn.  For the 2nd qn, doesn't necessarily apply 'cos it didn't happen, sorry. I'm already beyond that stage. Working adult with several years of working experience to boot. How about you?

Funny you using these similes to relate to learning the dharma, though. 

so do you turn your back on Dharma when someone tells you off bluntly? If you do, it just shows that you're not really in for the Dharma. But i will be more polite with certain people around. People with bruised egos can be nasty and scary.

Read my reply in blue. You don't even know me and won't even know what I would do, let alone judge me. So don't talk about 'turning my back on Dharma'.

Cheers!

[Crazywisdom]

If someone offers you something you don't want, why take it 

[Joey]

oh well, i dont have to say much because learning and practicing the Dharma is actually like any other samsaric activity, it requires stability, dedication, patience and an open mind, like how someone would want to learn a trade.

looks like someone cant stop his attacks against me now with selective reading how matured! I wonder who 

so gliang what do you want me to do? apologize? dedicate mantras to you before you can drop the whole thing and let go of your hurt and anger?

[gliang]

"Selective reading" ?   

Sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. In your post #9090, I don't even see you replying objectively to my post numbered #9088 which you intended to reply to. Instead, what did you do? Talk about 'bruised ego' and all. 

That aside, let me now reply to your last post numbered #9098, in case you say i 'selectively read' 

In the first place, why I carried on thus far this exchange of words with you, was to open up to you the possible ramifications of your actions(read #9088), about leading people away from the dharma and 'skilful means'. I didn't see you replying anything related to that at all and instead talked about my 'bruised ego'(talk about 'selective reading'  ). I mean, you yourself expressed your 'hope' that people would 'point out to you your errors', just like you said you wouldn't hesitate to do the same for others. You could say that's what I'm doing and it sort of unsettled you as well, just like it did to me(according to you).

Having a 'bruised ego' as you say, is fine with me. Nothing secretive and shameful. It's not the first time and neither is it gonna be the last, honestly. I can acknowledge and accept and live with that and work from here. Sure, people with 'bruised egos' may be scary to you, but who knows, what could be scarier to everyone else could be someone who is imposing, going around dealing blows at their supposed 'ego', especially to strangers, that's the best part. I don't need apologies thank you, I didn't come here looking for an apology. I came here for opinions, and I had some constructive ones(thanks to those people who shared). Oh well, whatever floats your boat.

[Joey]

"Selective reading" ?   

Sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. In your post #9090, I don't even see you replying objectively to my post numbered #9088 which you intended to reply to. Instead, what did you do? Talk about 'bruised ego' and all. 

That aside, let me now reply to your last post numbered #9098, in case you say i 'selectively read' 

In the first place, why I carried on thus far this exchange of words with you, was to open up to you the possible ramifications of your actions(read #9088), about leading people away from the dharma and 'skilful means'. I didn't see you replying anything related to that at all and instead talked about my 'bruised ego'(talk about 'selective reading'  ). I mean, you yourself expressed your 'hope' that people would 'point out to you your errors', just like you said you wouldn't hesitate to do the same for others. You could say that's what I'm doing and it sort of unsettled you as well, just like it did to me(according to you).

Having a 'bruised ego' as you say, is fine with me. Nothing secretive and shameful. It's not the first time and neither is it gonna be the last, honestly. I can acknowledge and accept and live with that and work from here. Sure, people with 'bruised egos' may be scary to you, but who knows, what could be scarier to everyone else could be someone who is imposing, going around dealing blows at their supposed 'ego', especially to strangers, that's the best part. I don't need apologies thank you, I didn't come here looking for an apology. I came here for opinions, and I had some constructive ones(thanks to those people who shared). Oh well, whatever floats your boat.

the thing is, there is a choice to let people be in a state where they accept what they think is the Dharma, but in actual fact it is just their misconceptions or wake them up from their own conception of what Dharma is, so that they can improve and get on. The former will keep them happy and around for a long time, but they do not get any spiritual progress and of course you will gain fame and praise which is of the 8 worldly conditions, while the latter can be rude, painful and very condescending and risk the reputation, but it is only for the person's benefit solely in the long run, even if that person may hate you or run away but at least the person will one day think back and improve spiritually.

I will always choose the latter. 

it dosent matter if that person is a stranger or not really, people are people and they are easy to read once you understand how they think.