Controversial questions

[Plinio Tsai]

All this questions that I did are very stupid ones...

I wish Joey delete then... alias, delete the entire post...

I do not know what was in my mind to ask this... please all of you that is reading this, please forgive my lack of wisdom in putting this post ...

Why Am I saying this?  Because all of this will never deliver us out of sufferings, will not add to our wisdom, will not add to our compassion, will only add to our sick need to have an answer in subjects that does not concern to us... at least, to me now it is like that...

Sorry to you all that is reading this posts...


Hi Joey

I just have heard from some people that Tsem Tulku is a active practicioner of Shugden, and I said it is a lie but had not much information to keep with the defense... 

Can you give me more information on Lama Ganchen, please?

Thank you and look foward for your answer...

Plinio Tsai

[Joey]

As Rinpoche had mentioned, how can a ghost harm such a great being as the Dalai Lama? you think a Buddha can be harmed by a ghost?

As for the practice, I cannot comment.

About Lama Gangchen, does it matter? The Dalai Lama only said those who practice cannot attend his teachings...when did He said "you should discourage people who practice?" whether or not he wants to practice, it's his business. The Dalai Lama said its okay to practice as long as it remains private and is NOT spread.

Also, when you dig into materials like that, you will have to realize that some of HHDL's supporters are biased, and there is no way that HHDL would take such extreme measures. Read his speech transcripts rather than documentaries, and you'll realize that he's been very, very neutral on this matter for a very, very long time, even now. It's just that some parties decide to go fanatical on the whole thing for their own insecurity or whatever, I have no idea. Some even go to as far as downgrade and belittle Pabongkha Rinpoche. Even the Dalai Lama would not go that far.

So, just be careful when you read/watch/listen to material regarding that matter. Just remember that there are always fanatics around and what they are doing does not represent Buddhism. You gonna let them influence you and have them lock your attainments so that you can no longer progress? 

[Joey]

My advice is just dont get involved with the whole shudgen drama. its not worth your time, your spirituality or attainments. Real practice has nothing to do with this or that protector, its more about mind training. If you just started, avoid people who indulge in such controvercies. They're dangerous. just look at where are they now: nowhere and a clown to everyone who knows better.

best regards, Joey.

[Joey]

Hi Joey

I just have heard from some people that Tsem Tulku is a active practicioner of Shugen, and I said it is a lie! Did I said wrong? I mean, is he a Shugden practicioner? I do not want to bring any controversial on about this and put HE Tsem Tulku among this thing too, so if you like, you can reply at my personal email: [email protected]

Thank you and look foward for your answer...
Plinio Tsai

no he is not a shudgen practitioner. he has made it very clear about that. also, him having a drikung kagyu Guru and the Dalai Lama's throne in his center is more than enough proof that he dosent practice shudgen. those people will never see because all they want is to gossip and put down high lamas.

let those people say whatever they like, all they want is controversy. they dont like the dharma. People who love controvercies like them, you can observe yourself how are them. They are often very narrow, fanatical and supersititious. Try to reason out and look at them being fanatics.

the deliberate accusations are a very clear sign that they have no Guru devotion. Why? if you have real Guru devotion, is there a need to destroy other people's Guru devotion? people with no Guru devotion can drag you down with them so if you choose to hang out with them, be careful.

And FYI, certain organizations have been spreading malicious rumors against Rinpoche, and what you said happens to be one of them.

[Joey]

usually when someone spreads rumors or degrades another lama or spiritual teacher, I question their motivation and whether or not they have Guru devotion. Because, if you know the importance of Guru devotion, is there any need to point out directly who is wrong or right? Wouldnt logic be enough?

[Plinio Tsai]

All this questions that I did are very stupid ones...

I wish Joey delete then... alias, delete the entire post...

I do not know what was in my mind to ask this... please all of you that is reading this, please forgive my lack of wisdom in putting this post ...

Why Am I saying this?  Because all of this will never deliver us out of sufferings, will not add to our wisdom, will not add to our compassion, will only add to our sick need to have an answer in subjects that does not concern to us... at least, to me now it is like that...

Sorry to you all that is reading this posts...

[Joey]

if you didint put this post, people will not know anything about whats going on, and they will continue to wallow in the cesspool of politics, sectarianism and fanatism. Do you know how many "buddhist" forums have banned the dicussion of this issue (which only fuels more sectariansm when questions remain unanswered) and this causes the entire forum to be a very dangerous place to go for your practice because everyone there has every intention of breaking your samaya with gurus that do not fit in with their standards?

people must know what is going on instead of the dont ask dont tell policy in other buddhist forums that will only make things worse. the reason why they do not want people to question or dicuss about it is because they themselves have no idea what is going on, all they have are scriptures and some texts quoted out of context from HHDL's website and if you force them to apply logic, they know very well they have nothing to say. People who read about this issue, in this topic in the future will know what is going on with all the accusations against Rinpoche and about the practice in general.

One of Rinpoche's policy for this forum is that everyone can talk about anything except for topics that destroy Guru devotion. And that is how I intend to keep it.

[seekingpurity]

My feeling on this topic is that when we have all died this will all vanish like a dream. All that will stay is what we did & why. The topic is controversial true enough but there have been so many extreme stories that happened over the ages in Buddhism and the final outcome of most of them was an interesting moral or teaching. What I love about Rinpoche is that he tries to get a new understanding from everything and is open to debate. We are all frightened & upset about this debate but we need to remember much fiercer debates have happened in the past. If this debate happened between Tilopa & Naropa the power of the debate would be so pure & sincere it would lead to countless generations recieving blessings & realisations. Its a debate about if you hang onto your teacher no matter what or if you let go of certain things they said. Or if you change teachers. We need to decide ourselves if we are going to do this in our future lives because we will be presented with this time & time again. And we need a clear idea of what qualities we are going to seek in the teachers of our future lives. In 1 aeons time noone will know the names of any of these Gurus Lamas Geshe Deities & the debates. But the questions will still be there. And if we are still seeking Enlightenment the teacher we meet will bring the same questions to the table.
Its a debate about so many topics. The main thing is what will we take with us to our future lives. In our future lives we will seek a Root Guru. What should be the qualities we look for. Perhaps this whole thing is emanated by the Buddhas to make us all so determined never to worship a spirit. Perhaps the Buddhas see in a fewaeons time we will as a group have an issue & at that time our determination not to worship a spirit will take us in a good direction. Perhaps to make us develop this karma both sides of the debate are Buddhas depicting arguing with each other. I myself dont have a clue what is going on. I just keep respect for everybody. I just pray that the outcome will be clean & positive & we can all move forward with the lineages in tact & harmony.

[dabeisyin]

boRing

[Joey]

My feeling on this topic is that when we have all died this will all vanish like a dream. All that will stay is what we did & why. The topic is controversial true enough but there have been so many extreme stories that happened over the ages in Buddhism and the final outcome of most of them was an interesting moral or teaching. What I love about Rinpoche is that he tries to get a new understanding from everything and is open to debate. We are all frightened & upset about this debate but we need to remember much fiercer debates have happened in the past. If this debate happened between Tilopa & Naropa the power of the debate would be so pure & sincere it would lead to countless generations recieving blessings & realisations. Its a debate about if you hang onto your teacher no matter what or if you let go of certain things they said. Or if you change teachers. We need to decide ourselves if we are going to do this in our future lives because we will be presented with this time & time again. And we need a clear idea of what qualities we are going to seek in the teachers of our future lives. In 1 aeons time noone will know the names of any of these Gurus Lamas Geshe Deities & the debates. But the questions will still be there. And if we are still seeking Enlightenment the teacher we meet will bring the same questions to the table.
Its a debate about so many topics. The main thing is what will we take with us to our future lives. In our future lives we will seek a Root Guru. What should be the qualities we look for. Perhaps this whole thing is emanated by the Buddhas to make us all so determined never to worship a spirit. Perhaps the Buddhas see in a fewaeons time we will as a group have an issue & at that time our determination not to worship a spirit will take us in a good direction. Perhaps to make us develop this karma both sides of the debate are Buddhas depicting arguing with each other. I myself dont have a clue what is going on. I just keep respect for everybody. I just pray that the outcome will be clean & positive & we can all move forward with the lineages in tact & harmony.

wow. a thread resurrected from the dead. LAST POSTED 2007 MAN!!

well, sad to say that the poster snapped due to a few mistakes he did and choose the incorrect solution instead. but your reflection does remind me of earlier episodes of South Park after Kenny dies and Kyle says "you know guys, i think we all learn something today..."

[dabeisyin]

LOL Joey!!!
Now that brings up questions for me.
In order to be enlightened don't we have to let go?
Let go.. but how much do we cling to teachers and places that bring us this enlightenment?
And rules?
things like that?
it's a totally diff subject.  But letting go and loving isn't that what we need to do?

[dabeisyin]

Maybe i should clarify what I mean.  Like one time I was talking to Baby Daddy about the devotion I have for him and he tole me: "When you love others as much as you love me... blank blank blank...
But you know I vewy attached to Baby Daddy and of course to me he is supreme and even though I know like all living beings have the Buddha nature... I have a hard time loving others as much as Baby Daddy.  But I know like he say I have to let go of my clinging to his apron strings and love all ppl and beings... but it's hard.