Taking Refuge

[Blueberry]

i m thinking ya....when is one "ready" to take refuge? 

Especially for very new one who grown up in other belief?

Is it allowed to claim i confirm to take refuge while i found Buddism ( or Buddism found me) in only few months back?
Is there any "preparation period" ( maybe join manjushri class first for at least how long period etc) for new person to get into Buddism then can take refuge?
or how?

Or how is it in case for children? is there any age range for them to take refuge?

[Lawrence Wong]

When one is ready to take the following benefits of going for refuge, he or she can go to take refuge:

1. We become a pure Buddhist

2. We establish the foundation for taking all other vows

3. We purify the negative karma that we have accumulated in the past

4. We daily accumulate a vast collection of merit

5. We are held back from falling into the lower realms

6. We are protected from harm inflicted by humans and non-humans

7. We fulfill all our temporary and ultimate wishes

8. We quickly attain the full Enlightenment of Buddhahood

( http://www.tsemtulku.com/en/resources/guidelines/the-refuge-vows/menu-id-274.html )

So I think, for every human being, the time is NOW.

[Blueberry]

Thanks LW

But my question is  "When"  she/he can be said as ready to take refuge?

After reading and understanding the benefit?
After she/he can recite all mantras properly?
Or after practice dharma for ..lets say at least a year? 2 years? or when? WHEN?

[Lawrence Wong]

Thanks LW

You are welcome. You gave me a chance to learn and think more about taking refuge, thank you.

But my question is  "When"  she/he can be said as ready to take refuge?

My previous message is answering this question.

After reading and understanding the benefit?
After she/he can recite all mantras properly?
Or after practice dharma for ..lets say at least a year? 2 years? or when? WHEN?

If one does not understand or want those benefits, then it is not the issue of he/she should/should not take refuge but he/she will not go to take refuge.

The recitation of mantras and sutras, the learning and practice of dharma, are things to be started AFTER taking refuge and to be done until we are enlightened. Not the reverse. If a person has not taken refuge in the Three Jewels before start, he/she will give up dharma practice very easily and shortly.

Few people can take refuge if one of the prerequisites is to be able to recite all mantras properly. The Buddha has taught a large number of mantras.

[ysng101]

hi,

    do not forget, check out the dharma center first and the guru that you'll be taking refuge with. Find out as much as possible thru all available sources , internet  ,  visit the center,  find out it's activities.  After you have done that you may request to take refuge from the guru.  The guru  may / may not grant you refuge  . The guru will know if you are ready for refuge or not.  If not granted refuge , pls do not give up and try again .  The guru is just giving you more time to get ready. In the meantime, just act as if you have taken refuge already. Observe the refuge vows and see how you do. Take it as training.
        Taking refuge is not be treated lightly.  These are vows passed on from Buddha Shakyamuni down thru the generations of great high lamas , via an unbroken transmission.  Once the guru takes you as his student,  REJOICE !  because the guru himself has taken the oath to guide you  in this lifetime and the next,  until you reach enlightment.   How wonderfull.  Repay him with your practice , by transforming your mind and slowly learn to be of benefit to  others.   Your dharma brother and sisters in the center will guide you along the way.  Enlightenment is not a journey to be travelled alone.

[Crazywisdom]

There is formal refuge which is given by your Guru and also informal in that you recite the refuge prayer 3x

Maybe start off with the informal one and work your way up. I have yet to take refuge from my Guru.

[Blueberry]

IF u yet taking refuge then u may consider him as ur guru?
how the samaya working here?
if u not taking refuge then what commitment u make with ur guru?

[Crazywisdom]

IF u yet taking refuge then u may consider him as ur guru?
how the samaya working here?
if u not taking refuge then what commitment u make with ur guru?

I haven't yet met him, only having followed his teachings online and in books. I live a few thousand miles away from where he teaches. I would have to meet him and then decide, and he would need to decide if i am a suitable student also 

I'm not sure how the samaya is working here    What is samaya 

What commitment am i making? Putting the teachings into practice, not falling into old ways of behaviour, pushing myself out of my comfort zone.

cw 



 

[ysng101]

I've seen in one of Rinpoche's DVD ,  he's mentioned that you can take him as your guru even if you don't have formal refuge.   

Does it mean that,  when you do not have a formal refuge with a guru you can ....   ( sorry )  bitch , get angry , cheat , lie ,  flaunt your ego , make everyone else miserable , etc , etc ... etc   ?      So, what's the difference   ?    Rinpoche did say that when you do take formal refuge , you would accumulate more merits and get the blessings .    But when you take Rinpoche as your guru in your heart ,  practice guru devotion  and have good samaya  ( good relationship )  by  practicing what he's taught  in the numerous DVD's  and online you tube videos.  Transform your mind , be of benefit to others  and be a better person than you were,    you would create the karma for Rinpoche to live long because Rinpoche  was the cause for your transformation.  How wonderfull of you !    With continous practice ,  you would be able to keep your refuge vows with one eye closed,  and when the time comes for you to take  formal refuge,  you better be ready,  a flood of merits will come crashing in.

  Some people do take refuge and then have bad samaya with the guru, It's a BIG NO NO !!  BAD KARMA !!!!  .. 

[Blueberry]

Wow YSNG101 ...thanks for explanation ya.. i got it now

Another question then ya.... as i know after taking refuge formally and u become student then Guru will give u some instructions (sadhanas?)  to manage myself to be in right track following his teaching na

then in my case who took Guru in my heart....so how will i be able to know what sadhana for me? 

[ysng101]

for Kechara House ,  our default daily sadhana will be the Lama Tsongkhapa's Guru Yoga.   

It's suitable for everyone since no initiation is needed.   Lama Tsongkapa is the embodiment of 3 buddhas  (  Avalokiteshvara Buddha of compassion , Manjushri Buddha of Wisdom and Vajrapani representing Buddha's power ).    In short, you be praying to one Buddha but getting the benefits of  three Buddha's.   When you do the Guru Yoga with the right motivation and visualizations,  it will bring tremendous benefits.

Although I have taken refuge,  I have yet to ask Rinpoche for any personal sadhana's.  I dare not ask Rinpoche.  How can I ask for more sadhana's when I'm still having trouble focusing, when doing my Guru Yoga ( my fault entirely !! )  .  I can only continue with my daily practice with more effort.

If you happen to be near Kechara House please do drop by .  If not, please e-mail  [email protected]  me at [email protected] .  I will get in touch with the people that would be able to provide you with more details.

[Blueberry]

wa...thanks ya

somehow i visited Kechara house twice...

i do daily Lama Tsongkhapa Guru Yoga daily...i m starting to hv my own altar
maybe u can explain how to prepare offering?

I m preparing myself to take refuge...

[ysng101]

How wonderfull !
 
          You should visit the center more often.  They make beautifull offerings there.   Are you near any of the Kechara Paradise outlets ?  The people there are so friendly.  They will be able to explain and show you how to prepare the offerings.  Some of the items for the offerings may already be available at the outlets.  So it's very convienient for you as well.

         How long have you being doing the Tsongkhapa Guru Yoga ?  It's peacefull and nice isn't it ?

[Blueberry]

Ooohh my...IF only i was nearby lor then i will visit Kechara everyday la...hehe

I visited Kechara outlets as well...in SS2, 1U and very short one in Sunway Piramid as was rush to attend Setrap Puja

And u r so right.... its nice doing Lama Tsongkhapa Guru Yoga..

What wud make Guru accept me taking refuge on him?

[ysng101]

I think,  practice guru devotion...      Even though you've never met him, he'll know.
A person who comes back lifetime after lifetime after lifetime for the sole purpose of benefiting others is not an ordinary person.

Hmm,   in fact, we have been comming back lifetime after lifetime after lifetime as well . But for the sole purpose of benefiting oneself only.