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GonzoEnder
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« on: November 05, 2009, 04:31:16 PM » |
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Meditation focusing on a stone is equally as powerful as a Buddha statue. The stone is not blessed. The Buddha is from a factory and also not blessed. Both are the same size.
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
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Joey
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2009, 06:43:26 PM » |
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Meditation focusing on a stone is equally as powerful as a Buddha statue. The stone is not blessed. The Buddha is from a factory and also not blessed. Both are the same size.
but the stone lacks features that can inspire you to enlightenment |
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
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GonzoEnder
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2009, 10:57:22 PM » |
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Well I can't think of anything really clever to say against that, anything I say will make me look like I'm trying to drag it out... soo you win, lol that was a TEST for me.  Now: I propose that,If the same stone is blessed by a lama and the same Buddha statue is made from a factory that Pollutes the air, and is not blessed, the stone is a more powerful meditation object. What say you now? |
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« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 10:59:20 PM by GonzoEnder »
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
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Joey
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« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2009, 11:45:43 PM » |
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Well I can't think of anything really clever to say against that, anything I say will make me look like I'm trying to drag it out... soo you win, lol that was a TEST for me. Now: I propose that,If the same stone is blessed by a lama and the same Buddha statue is made from a factory that Pollutes the air, and is not blessed, the stone is a more powerful meditation object. What say you now? can you see the blessings on the stone? because all the 84,000 Dharmas that the Buddha preached can be seen on his form. |
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
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GonzoEnder
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2009, 02:26:13 AM » |
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Your good at this  Soo... What about the stone? Is it worthless if you don't know that it has been blessed? I'm NOT a superstitious person but from everything I've read there would still be SOME benefit to the stone, even if the person holding/meditating on it were unaware of the hypothetical 'high lama' who has blessed it. Whats your opinion? |
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
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Joey
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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2009, 06:56:08 PM » |
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Your good at this Soo... What about the stone? Is it worthless if you don't know that it has been blessed? I'm NOT a superstitious person but from everything I've read there would still be SOME benefit to the stone, even if the person holding/meditating on it were unaware of the hypothetical 'high lama' who has blessed it. Whats your opinion? there is some but it cannot manifest due to lack of practical conditions or triggers. The blessings may come in other ways but definitely not as direct and obvious as a Buddha statue |
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
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Guardian of the Gate
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« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2009, 06:53:02 PM » |
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Gonzo,
You gave up too fast on this one and if I may add a rebuttal against the counter arguement proposed by Joey(I tried to post the reply but for some reason it went haywire).
Both the stone and statue are of the same mold, therefore held only as a mental construct. In Zen we say meet the Buddha kill the Buddha. The death is not one of faith, but one of destroying what we think the "Buddha" is which allows a clear view of the diamond. I can speak about this on a personal level, once in meditation I felt the equality of sound (a bell on a bike) while gazing at a garden with some rock plants and the like. A stone and the Buddha weighed the same.
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Joey
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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2009, 01:46:18 AM » |
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Gonzo,
You gave up too fast on this one and if I may add a rebuttal against the counter arguement proposed by Joey(I tried to post the reply but for some reason it went haywire).
Both the stone and statue are of the same mold, therefore held only as a mental construct. In Zen we say meet the Buddha kill the Buddha. The death is not one of faith, but one of destroying what we think the "Buddha" is which allows a clear view of the diamond. I can speak about this on a personal level, once in meditation I felt the equality of sound (a bell on a bike) while gazing at a garden with some rock plants and the like. A stone and the Buddha weighed the same.
then how would you reconcile that with the statement that a Buddha image has the power to bless the viewer by planting seeds of enlightenment as well as bless the environment around it? |
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
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ysng101
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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2009, 02:31:23 AM » |
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then how would you reconcile that with the statement that a Buddha image has the power to bless the viewer by planting seeds of enlightenment as well as bless the environment around it? what about places that may not have buddha images in the environment, but still has the potential to bless ? Places like Guru Rinpoche's cave and Naropa's cave ? Why do lama's make the pilgrimage to those caves to meditate when the lama's have their own temples filled with buddha images and statues ? |
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Joey
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« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2009, 06:28:55 PM » |
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then how would you reconcile that with the statement that a Buddha image has the power to bless the viewer by planting seeds of enlightenment as well as bless the environment around it? what about places that may not have buddha images in the environment, but still has the potential to bless ? Places like Guru Rinpoche's cave and Naropa's cave ? Why do lama's make the pilgrimage to those caves to meditate when the lama's have their own temples filled with buddha images and statues ? because those places can only confer blessings to those who know the significance. one would need a guide, or know the history of those places and who was in there in order to receive the full potential. in the case of a Buddha statue, you dont need to know all those as the image itself can convey the meaning qualities of the Buddha directly. |
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If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind." ~Buddha
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GonzoEnder
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« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2009, 12:14:20 AM » |
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That seems valid... I won't interject a rebuttal but maybe someone else will... Somebody has to stump Joey sometime and get his brain working really hard, he cant always 'win' and help us with his right views and understanding.  Although I must say being in Guru Rinpoche's cave is guaranteed to energize me more than seeing my buddha's on my altar that I have grown accostomed to and therefore are less powerful in my mind. A good way I like to "re-energize" my mind about my buddha's is to percieve each one like a real person. Now I feel guilty about not being super excited about my altar every time i see it... |
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« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 01:40:26 PM by GonzoEnder »
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Logged
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
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Lawrence Wong
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« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2009, 09:32:50 AM » |
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It is not the case if a stone has not been blessed by a lama then it is not blessed.
Whether an object is blessed depends a lot on our own mind.
We may get blessed for half an hour from an object blessed by a lama by contemplating more on love and compassion, the importance of practice, the virtuous deeds, impermance, etc. However, we may think about these for more than half an hour after we see a corpse that has not been "blessed" by any lama. In this case, the blessing power of a corpse is greater.
In the Song Rapidly Invoking Blessings:
"Life is impermanent like the setting sun.
Wealth is like dew on morning grass,
Praise is like wind in a mountain pass,
A youthful body is an autumn flower."
The sun, dew, wind and flower had not been blessed by any lama, but the Seventh Dalai Lama was blessed, by seeing the same impermance nature of our life, wealth, praise, and body. To him, the sun, dew, wind and flower are all blessed.
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« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 09:39:25 AM by Lawrence Wong »
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GonzoEnder
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« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2009, 01:57:03 PM » |
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But when I see a corpse I say EWW A DEAD CORPSE, RUN! WHY DIDN'T SOMEONE BURY IT, CALL THE COPS! That doesn't lead to enlightenment or even contemplation on impermanence. I'm just trying not to get murdered by the same person who left a corpse out in the open.
When a high lama has specially consecrated a rock I will believe that more. I trust speaking people not dead bodies. I also trust speaking people over 'statues' that don't look that much different than mundane human form.
I don't know that the Buddha confers 84,000 blessings its just a statue... kinda resembles a person. I don't feel any more 'jolted' by seeing the Buddha than the special rock. I have no direct perception of either one of the blessings. I'm just taking your word for it, and I'm more inclined to listen to a lineage holder than a peddler on the street selling Buddhas.
Also I mentioned that the factory that makes the Buddhas is destroying the environment with pollution because they don't know any better. I hate pollution especially to make Buddhas!
hmmmmmmmmmm?
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Logged
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
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Zenji
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« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2009, 11:14:01 PM » |
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How heavy your heads must feel, carrying around stones, statues, and corpses.
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« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 11:32:20 PM by Zenji »
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Thayata: gate, gate, paragate, parasamgate bodhi soha
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GonzoEnder
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« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2009, 12:51:23 AM » |
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what does your head carry?
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"Hip means to know;
It's a form of intelligence;
to be hip is to be update and relevant.
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop, you gotta hop up and do it.
Hip and Hop is more than music. Hip is the knowledge. Hop is the movement."
KRS-ONE & Marley Marl "Hip Hop Lives"
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